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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok I know the title is slightly misleading. It makes the same RWHP at peak. But the ZH2 holds on to it much longer. The Dyno runs are closer to the middle of the video. Brocks compares the Dyno curve to that of the H2 SX and the results were surprising.


 

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Cool video.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense. Guys that would buy a hyper streetfighter are likely the type that care much more about top end HP. Consider the competition in this category: Super Duke 1290, TuonoV4 1100, Ducati Streetfighter V4, etc.

The SX SE is a hypersport tourer. I never did need all the HP that the ZX14R has when I rode mine. Frankly, it could have similar "detuned" top end like the chart for H2 SX SE in this video, and I wouldn't miss it much. I've always believe that Kawi should've done a ZX14 SX, a dedicated sport touring version. Detuned the HP, relax the rider ergos, better wind protection, etc. But I understand Kawi probably committed to the H2 platform many years ago already, so no incentive to spend R&D money on expanding a line, whose days are numbered. Supercharging a 998cc engine makes more sense with ever tightening emissions standards like Euro 4/5. And it is more "tunable" than normally aspirated big block.
 

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...... I've always believe that Kawi should've done a ZX14 SX, a dedicated sport touring version. Detuned the HP, relax the rider ergos, better wind protection, etc. But I understand Kawi probably committed to the H2 platform many years ago already, so no incentive to spend R&D money on expanding a line, whose days are numbered.....
Let me introduce you to 2008 when Kawasaki introduced the Concours 14!

Yes, I know you are already aware of that. But what you are suggesting is what they did...exactly! I had one for three years (a 2010) and I was dissapointed with it too.
 

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All interesting, but Kawi has been playing with surcharged bikes for a few more years. They had to get better stock numbers than they did on the 2018 SX. Kawasaki pulled a lot out of the top of the H2 SX, my guess to get it to pass emissions. I think we'll find these two make similar power after being flashed. This is not the best run on my flash. I cannot seem to find the better run right now, but it pulled just short of 240 RWHP and barely over 105 RW LbFt of torque.

The graph below is stock and flashed. My stock torque curve is similar to his H2 SX.

 

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Let me introduce you to 2008 when Kawasaki introduced the Concours 14!

Yes, I know you are already aware of that. But what you are suggesting is what they did...exactly! I had one for three years (a 2010) and I was dissapointed with it too.
Lol... I loved the engine. It's the package around it that I didn't like so much. Still, I firmly believe if Kawi had spend some R&D yen on it, they could've revamped it into a world class competitor. What I suspect though, is Kawi knew the mitsibishi derived big block isnt as flexible as the supercharged H2 line, so they chose to let it die a painfully slow death, just like the ZX14R. Sad.

To your point though, I tend to look at sport tourers in 4 classes:

Grand tourers: 700 lbs +

Hypersport tourers: 600 lbs

Liter class sport tourers: 500 lbs

Light sport tourers: 400 lbs.

Obviously, a lot of bikes don't fall neatly into those buckets, but the general trend is there. What I was referring to the ZX14 SX would still be in the 600 lbs class, instead of going all the way up into the 700+ grand tourers. Same class as the H2 SX, VFR1200F and K1300S, all of which I'm actually quite fond of. Busa and ZX14R are also in here, and both in their last yr of production. If it weren't for H2 SX, this class would be dead. I'm glad Kawi thinks there are enough of us that like the tweeners.
 

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Lol... I loved the engine. It's the package around it that I didn't like so much. Still, I firmly believe if Kawi had spend some R&D yen on it, they could've revamped it into a world class competitor. What I suspect though, is Kawi knew the mitsibishi derived big block isnt as flexible as the supercharged H2 line, so they chose to let it die a painfully slow death, just like the ZX14R. Sad.

To your point though, I tend to look at sport tourers in 4 classes:

Grand tourers: 700 lbs +

Hypersport tourers: 600 lbs

Liter class sport tourers: 500 lbs

Light sport tourers: 400 lbs.

Obviously, a lot of bikes don't fall neatly into those buckets, but the general trend is there. What I was referring to the ZX14 SX would still be in the 600 lbs class, instead of going all the way up into the 700+ grand tourers. Same class as the H2 SX, VFR1200F and K1300S, all of which I'm actually quite fond of. Busa and ZX14R are also in here, and both in their last yr of production. If it weren't for H2 SX, this class would be dead. I'm glad Kawi thinks there are enough of us that like the tweeners.
Are you okay with chain drive bikes as Touring bikes? If so, it opens a lot of options. There are several "adventure" bikes that att really nothing but tall touring bikes. Like the Versys SE, BMW S1000XR, Multistrada, BMW GS, and others. If they would just lower them a smidge and get rid of the beaks....
 

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57x, that h2sx motor is like those outboard motors from the 80's, isnt it? Same basic engine, and displacement. Small set up changes determine its horsepower output.

I dont think the mod list to get to 240hp is any different than I did to my Ninja 1000, is it? (Ecu flash and a pipe )I dont mean that in a shitty way, its obvious it didnt need extensive mods to give incredible numbers.

Suzuki will have a new Hayabusa in 2021. If Kawasaki is selling enough zx14's and concours 14's, they will clean up their emissions and bring both back. The h2sx series is too expensive to be a direct replacement.
 

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If only that bike wasn't so ugly, lol. Obviously it has a lot of tuning potential and I have no doubt you could probably add 50-100 HP on that thing but as it is my Super Duke R makes about 15 less HP and the same torque numbers with an NA engine. :)

I will keep my N1K!
 

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Are you okay with chain drive bikes as Touring bikes? If so, it opens a lot of options. There are several "adventure" bikes that att really nothing but tall touring bikes. Like the Versys SE, BMW S1000XR, Multistrada, BMW GS, and others. If they would just lower them a smidge and get rid of the beaks....
On touring bikes, I do prefer shafties. It's one less thing to worry about out on the road. But... if the rest of the bike is appealing enough for what I'm looking for, I'm okay with chain. I have had several - Triumph ST and GT, ZX14R and now N1k. I should also include an SV1000S and a 2nd-gen FZ1. Even though I didn't ever sport tour on those 2, they were set up for it, if I wanted to.

The main trade off is, of course, weight. A chain drive VFR1200F would probably weight less than the H2 SX. Imagine that. IMO, the 600 lbs class can afford to be shaft driven. 500 or lighter, no.

I'm luke warm on the adv tourers. You are absolutely right many of them are just tall and up-right sport tourers. If I were over 6ft tall, I might like them more. Also, being an old sportbike guy, I just think a traditional sport tourers feels "right". Going into a nice sweeper, shifting 1/2 a cheek, and sliding my chin over the inside handlebar "feels" right on a gentlman's sportbike like the VFR1200F. I've done that on more upright bikes, and it just feels odd, even thought the bike is more than capable of doing the deed. Honestly, even the handlebar position/angle and the N1k feels more like what you'd find on a naked streetfighter with tubular handlebar straight across. This is why I'm working on installing Apex 3" riser clip-ons. Not so much to raise or lower the bar height and reach, but to adjust the downswept and rearward angles to be more like what you'd find on a sportbike. The VFR1200F's rider ergos feels perfect to me. Most riders find it too aggressive.
 

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Crf fan, I think these bikes are the future, more so than "right now".

From what they say, it's easier to get a 1000cc supercharged bike through emissions testing vs something similar, like a zx14, or your Superduke.

If that's not true, the supercharger doesnt make much sense. If you dont flash it, it's not much more than your Superduke carrying an extra 45lbs.

I think proof of this idea can be found by looking at the exhaust on the 2020, redesigned Superduke. If they had to make it run more clean than it does now, where do you add more exhaust or more cats?
 

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Crf fan, I think these bikes are the future, more so than "right now".

From what they say, it's easier to get a 1000cc supercharged bike through emissions testing vs something similar, like a zx14, or your Superduke.

If that's not true, the supercharger doesnt make much sense. If you dont flash it, it's not much more than your Superduke carrying an extra 45lbs.

I think proof of this idea can be found by looking at the exhaust on the 2020, redesigned Superduke. If they had to make it run more clean than it does now, where do you add more exhaust or more cats?
Yeah...you could be right. I am honestly getting away from all the high HP stuff anymore and I am starting to prefer middleweights again. The N1K makes more than enough HP for the street. These days I favor torque and handling/good chassis over 200 HP, haha
 

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Discussion Starter #13
CRFfan, I love the look of the Z H2 myself. It is completely bad *** to the bone. My friend also has a KTM SD R. I also like that bike and it looks just as bad *** but slimmer and significantly more naked. Sounds great too. It's in the same league as the Aprilia Tuono 1100. They use displacement to get the torque up there. All great bikes.

I'd still take Kawasaki reliability though over those. My friend's SD stranded him once. Another time he had to limp it home....some kind of TC/ABS issue. Just a sensor I believe but still. He tells me he's always skeptical if it would start! LOL! I felt the same about my 2008 Buell 1125R (Rotax V-twin motor). Every time I started it I felt the need to listen in on strange engine noises, and I always had that moment of doubt right before I hit the starter.



 

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OCL.....all good points. If they just changed the nose on that H2 it would be awesome in my opinion but it will grow on me most likely. My SDR had almost 13K trouble free miles before I sold it to my neighbor but mine was a 2016 and had a lot less electronics. Euro bikes are hit or miss for sure.

These days I have my DR650 (Apocalypse Bike, lol) and my N1k (2014). I love them both. I have my 2019 Hypermotard up for sale. Going to put some cash in the bank and maybe look for a 90"s sport bike. Always liked the VTR1000 Superhawk! :)

I will be curious to see what people do with that H2! It has a lot of potential!!
 

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It was a very simple change. Swap exhaust using a stock titanium 11-15 ZX10R header with 5mm spacers at the head tubes, Delkevic mid and a can if your choice, so full exhaust for $300. Remove smog. Tune. Most of the cut in power on top was from pulling tons of timing out of the top end. Then tune to clean up smog and the herky-jerky crap.

I agree, the H2 SX is ugly. I can't see it when I'm riding it. 🤣

Insurance has been a fight to get down. It was bad at the beginning, doubled at renewal (to over $2000/year). I changed simple things around on my policy twice and now have it back to cheaper than my N1K was.
 

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Realistically, what Kawi did with the H2 SX tune is as it should be, for a sport touring bike. No doubt there are those who want a 200+ HP sport tourer with a screaming top end. I'm not one of them.

Invariably, if the stock bike makes 125 RWHP, some would want to mod it up to 145. And if the stock bike makes 145 RWHP, some won't call it good til they tune it up to 168. And if the stock bike makes 168... you see where this is going? :wink:
 

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I love what I did with my 06 GSXR1000. They are around 160rwhp with a pipe and a tune. Mine is on the dyno today, so we'll see. The shop also has scales, so I'll know what it is. It is 439lbs wet new, so with a titanium pipe, Carrozzeria wheels and only a fiberglass upper I should be around 400. The bike has plenty of torque, great chassis and Ohlins suspension. The only negative is no bags. I found a soft side set with top bag. It's more than enough room for me. I'm less inclined to sell my H2 SX with what's happening to the economy and that my insurance is in line again, so I'll have both for some time.
 

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I agree, the H2 SX is ugly. I can't see it when I'm riding it. 🤣

Insurance has been a fight to get down. It was bad at the beginning, doubled at renewal (to over $2000/year). I changed simple things around on my policy twice and now have it back to cheaper than my N1K was.
The H2 SX looks fine to me. The styling is very Japanese, in the best sense. If you read Japanese manga, it has that same vibe.

Yeah the insurance was a big let down when I first looked into possibly getting an H2 SX. Whoa nelly! It was every bit as bad as the ZX14R. I'm hoping in time, Kawi will do the same thing they did with the N1k and convince the insurance co's to lighten up on the H2 SX, because of what it is typically bought for and the folks who buy and ride them.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Sometimes the search for better and more is a big part of ownership enjoyment. I can't fault anyone for wanting more.

I rarely use the N1k's 125 rwhp. But I sure do like it when I do use. If I had an H2, probably would be the same. Every once in a while I would open the cage and release the Kraken! You know like how often to you jump off an airplane? Once in a while the adrenaline rush is nice to experience if the risk is low.
 

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The thing about having the horsepower is theres no rule that says you have to use it. Also, many of the stock restrictions completely ruin the stock throttle response and the way the bike feels.

The 2011-13 ninja runs like a pile of **** when its stock. So does the concours 14. Both are better bikes, in every way when they make all of the power that's reasonably available. I'm not sure 57x was happy with the way his stock h2sx was, either. I dont think horsepower was his only motivation to flash the bike.

57x, I have an old magazine called "Visor Down" I think it's from 2009?

They offered a free dyno day for all the gsxr 1000's from 2000 to the then current 2009. It was a great article. Some bikes had a ton of miles on them, but they still picked up power after a few dyno runs .

Il have to look, but as I recall 165-168 area is what the k5 and k6 were good for. That's probably on the british scale, but still impressive. Especially if the had a decent exhaust. The newer ones made 170's , but gave up a lot of low-mid to get there. The k5/6 would have been the choice for anything other than track use.
 
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