Suspension guidance

3613 Views 11 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Geeker, Oct 10, 2015

GaryK

Discussion Starter · Aug 3, 2015

I have always been happy with my bikes comfort but of late I have noticed a very bad thing happening.

Before I explain... its a stock 2014 with oem tires 2500 miles.

The bike has always turned in much quicker than I would expect a 500lb bike too and it makes it easy and light to ride.

However I was practicing knee down by creating a large circle and dialing in. I couldnt find a glass flat piece of pavement, I could not maintain a steady speed... I was constantly increasing and decreasing speed.. which blows any attempt at smooth circling. I also was correcting almost constantly for small imperfections in the surface. 2 times recently the front end has washed out on light gravel (very light) and on chip road (understandable) which increased pucker factor by 10!

So I am riding the bike harder than when I first got it. I am wondering if my back tire has lost its curve and I am 'falling'over it. I also wonder maybe I should stiffen or soften my front suspension ? I am pretty happy with the rear as I dont get ejected on bridge joinings and its comformtable.

Thoughts ?

Thanks

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rcannon409

· #2 · Aug 3, 2015

I was one of the first to switch out my fork cartridges and shock on my 2013. The 2014 settings are better, but I dont know how much.

I dont believe either bike came with great tires. Your tires are now 2500miles worse than that. Its sort of like building a foundation on straw when it come to set up around worn tires.

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East Bay Ninja

· #3 · Aug 3, 2015

If your goal is to grind the knee pucks I'd suggest a track day over parking lot practice. a new set of skins may help too.

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GaryK

Discussion Starter · #4 · Aug 4, 2015

I think that new rubber is going to be on my list.

As far as track days I totally agree. Its the accelerated course for sure, however my summer is busy and I have no confidence that the battle axes are something I want try on my track days. I just want to explore more of the bikes limits for the very spirited(ok somewhat crazy) carving I do.

I am of the mind set that the N1K with an excellent rider can match the performance of my former super sport gsxr 600 ridden by a mediocre rider. So I strive to be better on this bike then on my gsxr.

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GaryK

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 17, 2015

Update

The problem got a lot worse.. tramlining over sealer is now worse. The smallest of pebbles can now almost dump me. NO confidence whatsoever now in the handling. Either something is loose or that f! tire is shot.

I called the local shop I am taking the bike in. I don't know wtf is going on but it aint cool.

I shouldn't need a new front at 2800 miles but I think that I will be changing out the straw foundation.

Local bike super store told me they will only replace tires with stock size so I may have them look at issue and then find another shop to buy and replace at.

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trublupsu94

· #6 · Sep 17, 2015

I've noticed similar feelings while riding mine. It has about 3300 miles on it. I have confidence in the turning, but it feels like it should be better. I don't want nor need sport bike handling. But it should be better than this. I think I am simply too heavy for the bike and the original tires stink. I weigh almost 240 lbs w/o gear and am riding on stock settings. Once the tires are trashed, I'll get the Michelin Pilot 4's and see how it is. If still not as good as it should be, I'll be spending the $1600 for re-valving the front and rear shocks with a new spring in the rear also.

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Clint1975

· #7 · Sep 17, 2015

Not sure if this has already been mentioned within this forum, but I came across a really good book that, among other things, covers in-depth suspension setup, chassis tuning and professional troubleshooting. I’m not affiliated in any way - it’s all about sharing the info!

It even has a troubleshooting checklist in an attempt to solve most suspension issues etc.

It's called Total Control: High Performance Street Riding Techniques, 2nd Ed written by Lee Parks

https://itun.es/au/kdd34.l

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mrsand

· #8 · Sep 18, 2015

Maybe Done

GaryK said:
The problem got a lot worse.. tramlining over sealer is now worse. The smallest of pebbles can now almost dump me. NO confidence whatsoever now in the handling. Either something is loose or that f! tire is shot.

I called the local shop I am taking the bike in. I don't know wtf is going on but it aint cool.

I shouldn't need a new front at 2800 miles but I think that I will be changing out the straw foundation.

Local bike super store told me they will only replace tires with stock size so I may have them look at issue and then find another shop to buy and replace at.

My front OEM Bridgestone Battlax S20 was done at 2500 on the front --- the off center tire area was worn from the super-elevation crowns on the roadways here in Florida--the wear bars were also exposed...

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GaryK

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 18, 2015

Not the book

Not the book but pretty good:

Motorcycle Suspension: - A Troubleshooting Guide - Motorcycles

I have been making small changes this morning and the bike is now a lot better. A couple of things that were wrong:

I was using tire pressures that were more reflective of pressures I used at the track...the S20's seam to hate lower pressure. I brought them back to OEM.

I forgot that early in the summer I had increased the rear adjuster for my wife to ride.

I am still fooling with damping up front but I think it is much better... I actually found a road with lots of pavement crack sealer and I road on the sealer itself as well as other roads with cracks and the bike stayed true!

The turn in is better and the bike is way more neutral(my shifts across the tank when getting her down no longer cause the whole bike to jump).

On a side note I found a sealed piece of road that had originally caused me a big moment. So I tried it again and it did again... I guess you can't fix sh!tty roads, they must have just done a poor job because other crack sealed roads did not cause the tramlining or twitchiness after my changes.

I don't think this is a point in time process.. I think the bike changes as time goes on and I think the way we ride it also changes. Being a student of suspension looks to be a worthwhile hobby. Cheers!

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cip57

· #10 · Sep 21, 2015

GaryK said:
The problem got a lot worse.. tramlining over sealer is now worse. The smallest of pebbles can now almost dump me. NO confidence whatsoever now in the handling. Either something is loose or that f! tire is shot.

I called the local shop I am taking the bike in. I don't know wtf is going on but it aint cool.

I shouldn't need a new front at 2800 miles but I think that I will be changing out the straw foundation.

Local bike super store told me they will only replace tires with stock size so I may have them look at issue and then find another shop to buy and replace at.

Gary,

The stock tires suck, its your problem. I have a 14 also and confidence was poor from day 1, the stockers tires require heavy counter steer, unbalanced feel in transitions and horrible over snake strips and any road imperfections. I want to a set of PP3's with a 180/55 on the rear and the bike handles normal. Most guys go 190/55 your choice, once you replace those tires you'll be a happy camper

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GaryK

Discussion Starter · #11 · Sep 21, 2015

Thanks, I have it 'live-able' now after adjustments. I will put new skins on for the spring as this season is just about toast in Ohio. If I ride in November - February its one of those 30 minutes things where you count your fingers and toes afterwards

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Geeker

· #12 · Oct 10, 2015

Firstly, let me say the S20 is a great tire. I recently replaced my stock S20s with the S20 Evos around 3200 miles. The front was worn to the wear bars before the rear tire. When I first bought the bike from the dealer in May, it felt amazing with turn in speed, but I couldn't hold a line. As the tires wore, it got worse. The front end always pushed, but now it was terrible. It would push in 30 mph flicks. I had a trip planned to Deals Gap and knew I needed to dial this in to have any confidence whatsoever. I replaced the tires with 1mm of tread depth left. I went with the stock size on the front and 190/55 on the rear. I was skeptical on whether or not it would have any effect, but the result was nothing short of incredible. It was a whole new bike that I could ride in a whole new mode of aggression.

There is nothing wrong with the Bridgetstone S20. I flogged the factory set on my 2014 ZX6R at the track until they were due for replacement. I went with Q3s for the next set until I killed them off. I went back with the S20 Evo. Their performance and life on the track is why I chose them for my Ninja 1000.

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