Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Factory version. 16,999 price.

They rave about how fast it is, and its basically un controllable without electronics. Wow? Really. It will flip right up, and over. Dang...

This made me curious, so I went to Ivans web page and found the dyno of his 11-13 ninja 1000. Fully modified.

I picked a few parts of the dyno chart that was easy to match up. Points at the even numbers. Things like 6000 rpm, or 100 hp. Its not exact, but its interesting.

Obviously, different dynos, so theres no true 100% exactness, but its the best we have access to. Sorry, I'm barely smart enough to post this. Correct rotation is out of my league.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
711 Posts
So what I am gathering from this image;

The HP is higher in the lower RPM (where I personally spend most of my time) but it peaks sooner and tapers off faster.

Doesn't look like you matched up the torque.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
Dyno's don't show everything.

It really is a different beast !

Lighter wheels, lighter bike, more nimble, better brakes, different gearing, different engine character, different weight distribution, more feel with the road (better frame), more ground clearance etc ...

I've had the pleasure of riding one of a mate, and was seriously impressed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MikSchultzy

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
exp, don't worry. your not the first person who was dazzled over light flywheel weight. That's what you do to make something feel really fast when you don't have much to work with.

I'll see what torque shows.

By the way, as far as the bike being lighter? If you figured the ninja with the aftermarket exhaust, it's weight would be about 10 lbs heavier, and many did not stop at just that.

I rode the previous gen tuono. It feels way, way faster than our bikes. Bikes that start low, and finish high always feel fast, but if you pay attention to what's happening, its easier to understand how and why.i
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
I rode both the Tuono 1100 and latest RSV4. The Tuono is more than likely the future replacement of my Daytona 675.

The midrange of both bikes is absolutely mind blowing! It feels faster than the BMW S1000RR and honestly makes the N1K feel like a scooter LOL

Both are pretty much track bikes with mirrors. It really does trump the N1K on every single level; just a whole different league.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
So what I am gathering from this image;

The HP is higher in the lower RPM (where I personally spend most of my time) but it peaks sooner and tapers off faster.

Doesn't look like you matched up the torque.[/QUO

I will do that. I Think THAT will show more.

This also points out what man racing a dressed with his bike. Notice the ninja does not breathe well up top.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
exp, don't worry. your not the first person who was dazzled over light flywheel weight. That's what you do to make something feel really fast when you don't have much to work with.

I'll see what torque shows.

By the way, as far as the bike being lighter? If you figured the ninja with the aftermarket exhaust, it's weight would be about 10 lbs heavier, and many did not stop at just that.

I rode the previous gen tuono. It feels way, way faster than our bikes. Bikes that start low, and finish high always feel fast, but if you pay attention to what's happening, its easier to understand how and why.i
It's not only that rcannon.
Once at speed, they just pull away.
But not under 90mph.

Keep in mind that you can also reduce weight rather easily on a Tuono.
Although it isn't that substantial as on a Ninja 1000.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
I would also have to disagree that it is uncontrollable without electronics. As long as you're smooth with the throttle, you'll be just fine. The response is perfectly linear; of course if you rip on it too much it will be very easy to overpower the rear wheel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Exp, I'll post this next chart. As you can see, it wont really pull away, from anything, until the speeds were way up there....Not referring to a stock ninja. It has quite a hp advantage over that. This would be ivans kitted version.

Lucianno, look at the charts again, or this newest one I'll try and post now.

The sensation you feel is not wrong, its just very misleading. The times for this bikes 4-60 and 60-80 are the saem as a stock z 1000...very, very close.

Its the reason our butt dyno is no good, or highly inaccurate.

When we feel something is "slow" or "fast" it is very much related to how steep, and how quickly that line gets steep.

A smaller overall number will feel faster if its mitered out over less rpm. If you ride a 125motocross bike, it is a perfect example. It has a very violent and fast feel despite never quite making as much power as a ninja 300..

Same thing is going on here.

As far as weight reduction, you can see from looking at the rsv4, thats not quite right. Some of those versions see the 25,000 area, and never get light. Stock exhaust could eb replaced, but from there, its the same story as all bikes. You'll be looking at high dollar wheels, and nothing really cheap or easy.

What would really happen, in a race, would be like exp matters says, but the bike with the low and mid advantage would have built up a decent lead by 90, and it would take him staying above the 9000-11000 area to ever catch you. If the riders were not pushing hard, he would not have a change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
Don't get me wrong rcannon.

a Ninja 1000 with Ivan's tune is most likely a stronger street bike then a stock Tuono in terms of power, for a lower price
But if you add all the other things (lighter wheels etc ...), you end up spending more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I dont see the lightness. The claimed weights are glight. The real weights? Not so much.

It starts at 16,999 and 469 lbs. Older version was heavier, still. Rsv4 is similar weight, if not heavier due to full fairing.

Sure, theres the exhaust option, but its starting at 17,000 dollars. An exhaust will be as much as any other machine. Wheels, same story. For sure possible, but not cheap, no matter what.

I think your pricing is better than our US pricing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
Going strictly by the numbers, they may look similar but as far as riding experience goes, there's just no comparison. One is a superbike with higher handlebars, the other is really more of a touring machine. If you have a dealer closeby, try to take one out. If you're not impressed, you must be dead inside LOL

It's really interesting how something can look similar on paper but be soso different in reality. That engine is truly one of a kind; the power delivery is superb and it feels faster than a BMW S1000RR (even though it isn't). It also LOVES to rev, whereas the N1K is a lot more lazy (even with Ivan's flash). It has power but its happy place is definitely sub 7k. The chassis on the Aprilia is fantastic as well; it feels almost as agile as my 400lbs Daytona even though the weight is closer to my N1K. Handling on the N1K is good but it's definitely more disconnected.

If you love superbikes but don't want to deal with an aggressive riding position, I'd say the Tuono 1100 is the most exciting bike on the market today. I was that impressed with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I've ridden it. The older , 2013 model.

I was waiting for someone to say riding experience. Thats the point here.

Look, by numbers, theres no comparison. The Aprilia engine wont match the ninjas, You can see under 9000rpm, it wont come close. On a racetrack, the Aprilia holds a serious advantage, if your spinning 10,00 rpm. Otherwise? Forget it.

Dont be the guy who straps the loud exhaust on. The exhaust removes low end and is obnoxious. When that missing low end transitions into a normal midrange, your brain clicks into overdrive and process it as FAST!!! In reality, you cost yourself performance.

All you do to make the ninja feel that way is lighten your flywheel. (may not even be possible) A few lbs removed gives that fast, rev-happy feeling. I sit any faster? No. Does it feel fast and light? For sure. Especially if you were to remove 20 hp from the 3000-5000 range.

Lets say I could tune a ninja to be at about 40hp, @ 5000 and then by 7000 have it hit it current 100 hp. I would be credited as building the fastest, meanest and baddest ninja ever. Would it be real? Of course. Thats what you felt. Try Yamahas new r1 for a sample of that. It feels, and is very fast, but the feel just does not hold up

Your ninja has bad , cheap suspension. Again, we have a 7000.00 dollar price disparity here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
There is a big price difference but the non-factory for $14,xxx still has a vastly superior suspension and is $2k less.

If you're comparing all around performance, I would say the extra $3k you pay for the Tuono is definitely worth it. I believe the N1K was $11.9k vs. $14.9k for the non-factory Tuono.

Then again, it's really comparing apples and oranges. One is a sensible touring bike, the other is an exotic supernaked. Almost like comparing a Tesla to a Ferrari. Both are quick but really built for a different purpose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I wish Honda would take their VFR1200 motor. Chain drive, and just build the bike in this Aprilia style. Go with a slightly higher and more protective fairing.

Theres no reason we need to be 1000cc, or 1100, is there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
Yea, I'm not sure how the Z1000 engine is tuned but I wish they would've kept the N1K's engine closer to the ZX-10R, meaning a bit more rev happy.

The Tuono has a bit more midrange than the RSV4 but it kept the willingness to rev. There really isn't that big of a difference between both bikes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
There is a big price difference but the non-factory for $14,xxx still has a vastly superior suspension and is $2k less.

If you're comparing all around performance, I would say the extra $3k you pay for the Tuono is definitely worth it. I believe the N1K was $11.9k vs. $14.9k for the non-factory Tuono.

Then again, it's really comparing apples and oranges. One is a sensible touring bike, the other is an exotic supernaked. Almost like comparing a Tesla to a Ferrari. Both are quick but really built for a different purpose.
But you better buy a standard Tuono & put in real aftermarket suspension.
The Ohlins on the factory one are just above average, and you pay a big premium price for it, more then it's worth. (you have to remove the price of standard suspension ... that's a 3K difference).
It is my suspension tuner who said that (about the Ohlins not being that good on the factory)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
Yea, in the end you're pretty much paying for a paint job on the factory version. Unless I find one for a deal, I'll more than likely pick up the regular one instead.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,238 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
But you better buy a standard Tuono & put in real aftermarket suspension.
The Ohlins on the factory one are just above average, and you pay a big premium price for it, more then it's worth. (you have to remove the price of standard suspension ... that's a 3K difference).
It is my suspension tuner who said that (about the Ohlins not being that good on the factory)
From what I have heard, he is right. Something about several grades of Ohlins. and much of the oem Ohlins being made in Japan and not being the premium grade..Its not like the stuff you have, and probably priced higher.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top