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I know this bike looks taller, more adv like, and it is basically an African Twin, but is it in the class? Would it be in the conversation if you were looking at the Ninja, or a Suzuki? I think Honda is calling it an NT1100. If you look up "cb1100" you get the old, retro bike. View attachment 32436
Not even close. Next!
 

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I know this bike looks taller, more adv like, and it is basically an African Twin, but is it in the class? Would it be in the conversation if you were looking at the Ninja, or a Suzuki? I think Honda is calling it an NT1100. If you look up "cb1100" you get the old, retro bike.
In a word: no. Don't get me wrong. Honda makes a great bike. My very first bike was a CB500F. But that thing is not a SPORT-touring bike. Touring, sure. But not sport. Just based solely on that photo, I would compare it more with a Versys or V-strom than the Ninja or GSX-bla-bla. (I hate Suzuki's dumb number-naming; too hard to easily pronounce).
 

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Going back to the title of this thread, I disagree. If the Suzuki is a rip off of the Ninja 1000, then all the 1000cc and 600cc sport bikes which all are quite similar are ripoffs of each other. But they're not, they're in the same segment, with subtle changes between them. When I was looking for a new bike, the Ninja 1000 was literally the only Japanese bike that fit into the segment it's in, I'm excited to see another brand see the value in the sport tourer segment instead of more adventure bikes and more touring bikes. The sport side is often overlooked. It does look similar to the N1K but I think there are notable differences.
 

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Going back to the title of this thread, I disagree. If the Suzuki is a rip off of the Ninja 1000, then all the 1000cc and 600cc sport bikes which all are quite similar are ripoffs of each other. But they're not, they're in the same segment, with subtle changes between them. When I was looking for a new bike, the Ninja 1000 was literally the only Japanese bike that fit into the segment it's in, I'm excited to see another brand see the value in the sport tourer segment instead of more adventure bikes and more touring bikes. The sport side is often overlooked. It does look similar to the N1K but I think there are notable differences.
I think it would be more accurate to say that Suzuki is targeting the N1K. It may not be a ripoff, but they've clearly put the N1K in their crosshairs. As you say, the N1K was pretty much in a segment by itself, and Suzuki have definitely entered that segment. There are no other bikes out there that so aggressively target the SPORT side of sport-touring. Sure, you've got touring bikes that claim to be sporty, but at the end of the day they're just ADV bikes with 17 inch wheels and less off-road biased suspension. (Lookin at you, Tiger 660 Sport!).

At the end of the day, it's semantics really. With the N1K as the only true SPORT-touring bike in the market, Suzuki both did and did not rip it off.
 

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The real question is why it took Suzuki this long to come up with a N1k fighter. The N1k has been around for 10yrs and sold quite well in many parts of the world. The GSX-S1000 trio was a royal waste of dealer floorspace. All they really needed was a naked and a sport tourer. What they have now is what they should've offered back in 2015.

I just hope Honda and Yamaha pay attention and get in on it. With the FJR apparently on the chopping block, Yamaha hopefully has something up its sleeves. The R1/MT10 crossplane would make a great GT engine. I like it even more than the K5.
 

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The real question is why it took Suzuki this long to come up with a N1k fighter. The N1k has been around for 10yrs and sold quite well in many parts of the world. The GSX-S1000 trio was a royal waste of dealer floorspace. All they really needed was a naked and a sport tourer. What they have now is what they should've offered back in 2015.

I just hope Honda and Yamaha pay attention and get in on it. With the FJR apparently on the chopping block, Yamaha hopefully has something up its sleeves. The R1/MT10 crossplane would make a great GT engine. I like it even more than the K5.
In a word, money. Suzuki was on their death bed for a while.

As to no competitors for so long, that is sort of, but not totally true. There were competitors but not at the same price range. When I sold my first N1K, I bought a BMW S1000R, then a KTM Superduke GT. To me they were competitors, just more expensive. I would add the BMW R1250RS to that.

I’m sure that the response will be that some of them don’t qualify as sport tourers, but I don’t really think the N1K is an ideal sport tourer either. And all of them can be fitted with aftermarket soft bags quite easily. In fact, I bought soft bags for my N1K fo 2-3 day “trips”.
 

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Agreed that Suzuki was on shaky ground for quite a while. Still, however many R&D ¥ that went into creating both the GSX-S1000F and the Katana could've easily been spent on coming up with a GSX-S1000GT in 2015. It might not have the techie bits it has now for 2022, but neither did N1k at that point. If GSX-S1000F had larger fairings, a better windscreen, and a proper sport touring subframe, I would've bought that instead of N1k and be very happy with it. Heck, they could've called that the Katana... instead of wasting the moniker on yet another also-ran modern retrosport that didn't do anything the naked GSX-S1000 couldn't.

Also agreed there were/are other worthy sport tourers available. Granted, nowhere near as many as these ADVs bleeding out of every mfr's nostrils, but a guy had/have choices. Even Suzuki has the Busa, which can lay as much claim as a GT as any. It suffers from the same high-insurance-premium problem as the ZX14R, but so did the N1k. No bike is perfect. They all have their niggles and gotchas.
 

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ps - apologies for hijacking the conversation - I'll move it if I can find a more suitable thread.
edit: see above
 

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There were competitors but not at the same price range.
I think this is really the key point. Yes, from a practical standpoint I'd call the BMW and KTM competitors, but realistically, they're not. I'm the perfect example here. My budget for a bike covered the N1K pretty easily. In no way did it remotely cover the BMW or KTM. I could have stretched and probably been fine with the R1250RS base model, but why bother with that when the N1K gets me more goodies for less money? Nothing against those two bikes. They're both great bikes (though the KTM is fugly IMO). But they're priced WELL above the N1K, which makes them tangential competition at best.
 

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I think this is really the key point. Yes, from a practical standpoint I'd call the BMW and KTM competitors, but realistically, they're not. I'm the perfect example here. My budget for a bike covered the N1K pretty easily. In no way did it remotely cover the BMW or KTM. I could have stretched and probably been fine with the R1250RS base model, but why bother with that when the N1K gets me more goodies for less money? Nothing against those two bikes. They're both great bikes (though the KTM is fugly IMO). But they're priced WELL above the N1K, which makes them tangential competition at best.
When I bought my SuperDuke GT it was discounted $5,000. That is what made it work for me.
 

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Back before I bought the N1k, I seriously considered the wethead R1200RS. 1250 had just come out and were still quite expensive. However, the wethead had already been out for several years and gently used examples were easily found. The RS apparently wasn't that popular so price was fairly reasonable. I found a few in the $10-13k range. Even some in $9k range with bit more miles. I think the 1250 being out also depressed the prices on wethead 1200's. My guess is a lot of these were owned by riders with more than 1 bike, so lots of 2-3yr old ones with barely any miles on them. Maybe not exactly the same price range of the N1k, but close enough for me to cross shop.

I also looked at the Ducati Supersport. While it's not quite a bona fide sport tourer, it would've been a fine gentlman's sportbike, which is really what I bought the N1k for. Lot's of examples in the similar $11-14k range. To a similar degree the GSX-S1000F also falls into this category. Slap a top case on it, and it could easily serve the same purpose the N1k does for me. Those can be found cheap, some dipping into the $6k range.

Not saying these are competing head-on with N1k. They have different specs and target different demographics, but there is some overlap with N1k. Not everybody buys the N1k to do exactly the same types of riding, so depending on the buyer's intended use, there are other bikes that might make sense.
 
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Having owned and put several thousand miles on an RS I can safely say its VERY different from the Ninja. Yes, it's a "sport tourer" but it's much larger and heavier (despite the weight claims on the BMW website), and has a very non sporty boxer engine IMO. That being said you can throw hard cases on and it has a bit of a fairing, but it's not evenly remotely a sport bike.

I would put it more in the larger class of sport tourers despite it being not as large as an FJR or R1250RT, or maybe it sits between the Ninja and the RT.

The KTM definitely sits in the Ninja space size, weight and ergo weight wise. I bought mine for 15k new (when they were trying to sell off the inventory of the first gen) but the new ones are back up to 22k, so they are priced much higher than the ninja at this point in time. Also, it's a big twin which makes it feel very different at higher revs when traveling. At least my older model (with the super adventure flywheel) did.

As to the S1000R (owned that too), that's a hyper naked and not even remotely a touring bike. Of course there are those who will say "everything can be made to be a touring bike" etc, but even with a large tail bag and extended wind screen (which did almost nothing) it didn't come close to getting there.

The Suzuki is clearly right there with the Ninja, and from what it looks like would be direct head to head competition. It reminds me when the K1300S came out what appeared to be in response to the honda blackbird.
 

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I also looked at the Ducati Supersport.
I very nearly got a Ducati Supersport. The base model isn't that far off in price from the N1K, but there's just too make things that make the Supersport lackluster by comparison. It's way down on power and has crappy OEM luggage. And once you start adding accessories that the N1K comes with stock, the price skyrockets. I really want to own a Ducati, but I just couldn't justify it over the N1K. And I think that's the N1K's greatest success. It's an incredible value for the money. Hopefully the new Suzuki can match that part as well.
 

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I like my N1K and have no intention of moving it on in the near future but it doesn't set my pulse racing - You know how you see or ride something that just evokes that "feeling" of OMG I love this.

I am actually in the market for a second bike and I am really struggling to find something in that 600 ish class that just makes me want to own it no matter what. it probably doesn't help that nearly every 600ish bike in Aus seems to be a LAMS bike either. None of the full power versions seem to come into the country. Will probably just look for something second hand to be honest.
 
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