Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Forum banner

21 - 40 of 56 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
Nothing wrong in asking a question at all. Specifically for that question, the answer would vary depending on how much riding experience a person has and hence I asked you how long have you been riding for.

If you are a newbie and go hot into a corner and smashed your brakes, doesn't matter if you have ABS or not, you are more likely to end up sweeping the road.

Like I said earlier, I gave you my 2 cents, it is up to you to decide how you want to post and what you want to post. Have a safe ride Bob.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
Nothing wrong in asking a question at all. Specifically for that question, the answer would vary depending on how much riding experience a person has and hence I asked you how long have you been riding for.

If you are a newbie and go hot into a corner and smashed your brakes, doesn't matter if you have ABS or not, you are more likely to end up sweeping the road.

Like I said earlier, I gave you my 2 cents, it is up to you to decide how you want to post and what you want to post. Have a safe ride Bob.
Interesting, that the answer would depend on riding experience. Would think the answer would be nearly the same, independent of experience. If you're in a curve, and need to brake, do the right thing. I suspect the MSF has probably trained almost a million riders to straighten up and come out of the turn, before braking. The MSF does not allow braking while taking a curve. Oh well, thanks for the input.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Reminds me of my last ERC (Experienced Rider Class) where the mantra for everyone was "You're not looking far enough around the curve."
I must admit, I don't always do it. Just like when you are turning, you're supposed to turn your head in the same direction as well. That's why I like to check out the MC Rider videos on occasion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Nothing wrong in asking a question at all. Specifically for that question, the answer would vary depending on how much riding experience a person has and hence I asked you how long have you been riding for.

If you are a newbie and go hot into a corner and smashed your brakes, doesn't matter if you have ABS or not, you are more likely to end up sweeping the road.

Like I said earlier, I gave you my 2 cents, it is up to you to decide how you want to post and what you want to post. Have a safe ride Bob.
This section of the Forum is for "All discussions related to the Ninja 1000" Not every posting has to be a question searching for an answer, I would think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
All the best dude, ride safe, keep the rubber side down.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,303 Posts
On a CX 500 I owned for a short while I can remember it liked to lean to one side or the other in relation to being heavy or off the throttle. Torque lean is the only way I knew how to describe it. Didnt know if it was due to the longitudinal orientation of the motor, the shaft drive or a combanation if both. I know I didnt like it though.

@rcannon409 do you feel anything like that on the C14?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,537 Posts
My old xs 11 yamaha would bounce when you applied or chopped the throttle. You had to use heavy rebound damping to try and control it. You adjusted to it, but he sensation was awful.

The concours 14 uses the" paralever" system. It might as well be chain drive . Theres no downside to its drive shaft except weight.

The whole shaft drive lash thing was pretty funny. There was one guy who was known for his c14 flash. He told everyone the abruptness they felt, off idle, was part of the shaft drive. It sounded reasonable. There had to be some slop in the system, right?

Actually...no. much less than a chain. Once Ivan flashed , that was all gone. If you rode a stock bike, you would swear there was drivetrain lash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
411 Posts
Interesting, that the answer would depend on riding experience. Would think the answer would be nearly the same, independent of experience. If you're in a curve, and need to brake, do the right thing. I suspect the MSF has probably trained almost a million riders to straighten up and come out of the turn, before braking. The MSF does not allow braking while taking a curve. Oh well, thanks for the input.
MSF RiderCoach here, certified to teach the MSF Advanced RiderCourse (ARC). Here it is, verbatim from the Advanced RiderCourse RiderCoach Guide, page 15-16, under Topic A: Cornering, referencing Slide 9 which depicts "A Different Cornering Strategy; Trail Braking; Delayed Apex" with an illustration from Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch:
"
  1. Used in performance riding
  2. Uses trail braking and delayed apex
  3. Requires extraordinary judgment and minimal outside factors
S9 (Slide 9) is taken from Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch. It is shown here to illustrate an option used by many performance riders on a track, but is also applicable to street. As with all cornering procedures and techniques, the assumption is that good judgment and timing are used. Detailed explanations and technical aspects of trail braking are beyond the scope of this course. A key point is that is that it is not necessarily a bad technique to brake beyond the entry point of a curve; and using a delayed apex is a good conservative approach to negotiating most an curve. This is true whether riding casually or in a more spirited way.

It is worthwhile to note that the outside-inside-outside path of travel using a slow, look, press, roll procedure, is a good start point for learning about the nuances of cornering. In the BRC, it's important for new riders to manipulate the controls to get maximum feedback and to demonstrate controlled movements. A key safety message is always to have an appropriate entry speed that allows smooth completion of the curve. The exact entry point may vary, but appropriate judgment is very important in successful cornering."

Thus, when I coach the BRC, I ask my students, "Why, as beginning riders, do you need to get all of your braking done before the curve?" I know there are advanced techniques which are beyond the skillset of beginning riders so I qualify it. As we progress through our motorcycling career, each of us needs to self-evaluate in order to determine when we're ready to learn that stuff.

I'll add this to the Braking In a Turn thread. You're welcome.😉
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
I agree chain maintenance is a PITA. It's especially so on a long trip, on the N1k, or any bike without a center stand.

Only BMW offers bikes that are relatively light and fast, that has shaft drive. Moto Guzzi's bike all have shaft drive. I don't care to have a big heavy Concours or FJR. Nor do I want a BMW or Guzzi.

So, I accept the Ninja 1000. I just did 450 miles in one day on mine. About 40% highway, the rest twisty roads. My goodness this bike is good for that! It is FAST and comfortable, and light enough to not leave me exhausted at the end of the day. I wish she had 4 more inches of wheel travel on some of the roads I was on but....that's not the bike's fault!

Enjoy the bike for what it is. Go ride it. Enjoy life because you can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,537 Posts
Kawasaki had the shaft drive Concours 1000. That bike wasnt as fast as our ninjas, but was way more comfortable. It was smaller than the concours 14, but not light. It was a 600lb bike.

When you take apart the concours 14 shaft drive assembly, it makes you appreciate the chain. I believe the pile of bolts and hardware I had weighed more than the chain and sprockets on our ninjas.

If kawasaki gave the ninja shaft drive, they would end up with that machine....almost. The concours 1000 was smooth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
RC, if I remember correctly the Concours 1000 had a reputation for being buzzy. It was revolutionary in 1986 when it first came out. Kawasaki basically took the Ninja 1000r (not our Ninja, the first Ninjas) motor and a whole lot of its design characteristics and created a fully faired, shaft drive, hard bagged equipped spor-tourer. The bike was a big hit. It remained in production for almost 20 years! The design was so old school it was still using a 19" front and 16" rear wheels and carburetors back in 2005. I think it produced 100 rwhp.

I owned a ZX11D for a couple of years, and that bike too shared a lot of the characteristics of the original Ninja 1000r and the Concours 1000. It was heavy even with its aluminum frame. 595 lbs. wet. But it was also VERY fast. In fact, even to this day the ZX11D would be considered fast. Certainly faster than today's N1k. 135 rwhp, and perhaps about low 10's in the 1/4 mile, plus a top speed of over 170 mph! It was the fastest for a few years, before the updated Blackbird took the crown, barely, in 1998, then the Hayabusa swept the field and blew them all away in 1999. Those were the good old days of hairy balls and mustaches, where unlimited sportbikes were allowed to run wild without ANY electronic controls. Just rider skills (or lack of). The Hayabusas were pushing near 200 mph before the governments threatened to pull the plug.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,537 Posts
I remember it as being smooth, but that may have been due to some mods the bike had. The one I rode wasnt stock. I think it was also geared higher than our ninjas. It was 20 years, wasnt it? That's crazy. The bike is still popular.

Like you say, all those engines were related. It's just like Kawasaki is doing now with the z900, versus, and our bikes.

It would be an Interestong test to compare the last concours 1000...that was 03, or so? Compare that bike to the base model Versys 1000. I know the technology isnt a fair fight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
It wouldn't compare well. The other thing I remember testers complained about was the high center of gravity of the C1000 especially with a full tank. My ZX11D had the same issue. They also required 2x more maintenance than our modern machines. Valve inspections/adjustments every 7,500 miles along with carburetor sync. Handling wasn't that great either. Heavy steering feel. Their suspensions were also quite basic and low grade. Our memories always make them out to be better than they really were.

My friend still has a Ducati 900SS, circa 1995. Beautiful bike. Beautiful sounds. I remember testers raved about these bikes and it got great reviews. I rode it recently. It's weird. Very weird to ride. Heavy steering. Stable, but heavy feeling. TALL gearing. Long reach to the bars (they all were including the Japanese big bikes). Chassis doesn't like bumps when leaned over. Nice cruising bike though and great to ride to the local watering hole. But I wouldn't want to go back to those 1980-1990's bikes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,537 Posts
Ok, this just became not as much fun to think about. Did you see what the real weight of the concours 1000 was? Back then, the claimed weights were not very reliable.

It shows a ready to ride weight, of the concours 1000, as 652 lbs. I hope that includes bags. It does say the fuel capacity is 7.5 gallons.. That surprised/shocked me. That's only 40 lbs lighter than the concours 14. About 50-60 lbs more than your zx11. Yea, with that in mind, there won't be much comparison test winning. Or competing. I didnt remember it feeling that heavy. It was low and easy to hold up.

Holeshot performance shows a concours 1000 at about 90hp. Versys at 105. That's a little more competitive.

Imagine that's all we had. This 650lb concours 1000, or your friends ducati that was probably at least 200lbs lighter. Maybe more. That Ducati would feel amazing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
I think it is a perfectly legit question to ask. Take the R1250RS for example. The engine makes about as much HP as the Ninja 1000. It has a shaft drive and crub weight of 535 lbs. That's what... 16 lbs more than the N1k? Fairly comparable bikes, I would say. So why not shaft drive? I, for one, would be fine with the penalty in rear unsprung weight and driveline power loss.

I'm okay with the chain maintenance, but I would rather not have to put up with it, if I don't have to. Especially on tour... especially without a center stand. N1k replaced VFR1200F I rode for 7+yrs. Yes, there is something to be said about being on a long tour and not having worry about anything other than putting gas in the tank.

Back in the '80's, I rode the piss out of a Yamaha Maxim XJ650 and XJ700. Fantastic general purpose bikes. Old style uncompensated shaft drives but didn't bother me all that much. Had way less HP compared to what we are talking about here.

I don't always agree with Bob's take on everything he posts, but this one... he's got a point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
Most of BMW's bikes are just plain ugly and the 1250RS is one of them. Their roadsters look great though. I wouldn't say no to owning the 1250R if I were shopping in this segment. But at this segment, it's tough to ignore the competition. Shaft drive or not, the price point puts these bikes squarely in the H2 territory. I won't even get into the ADV alternatives. It will be a hard sell. If given a choice, I wouldn't even hesitate to get a ZH2 or a 2020 Ninja 1000. So much more personality and beauty. Chain maintenance takes me 10 minutes every 500 miles.

On tour I got this:

SNAP JACK
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,537 Posts
The bikes would be compatible if they were both I line 4's. The flat twin BMW uses works really well with shaft drive. It's easier and lighter to use a shaft drive with that design.

When the inline 4 gets a shaft drive, it more difficult and requires more directional changes. It's more of an add on rather than something the engine was designed around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
464 Posts
Actually, compared to a longitudinal engine, any transverse engine, like an inline4, only requires a single 90deg transition - usually a bevel gear at the output shaft. Japan, Inc. used to crank a ton of shaft-driven inline4 bikes. The XJ's I mentioned above is just one example. Kawi, Suzi and Honda all made boat loads of them, some as small as 550cc IIRC, maybe even smaller.

From a technical perspective, there is no hindrance to designing one. Back when most bikes were rather general purpose and the UJM reigned supreme, shafties made a lot of sense. However, as bikes became more specialized and segmented and niched, the need to shave every last Oz of weight and boost every last HP of performance took over the design paradigm. So faded the shaft-driven Universal Japanese Machine into the sunset.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
Two comments: What about the 90 degree transition to the rear wheel?
I had an '84 Honda V45 Sabre. Even with the mild mannered 750 V4 and my light wristed use of the throttle, shaft jacking was a real issue that messed with the handling. Aside from weight, the rear drive was a complicated mess that even local (Seattle) dealers did not want to mess with. Looking back, it feels like it was an idea ahead of it's technology. When the '87 VFR came out with O-ring chains I had one that fall and never looked back.
I wonder where enclosed chains went. Light weight, no power loss, simple. Probably because you couldn't see the chain. Out, out of mind, until it fails.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
If the chain is in an oil bath away from the elements it should last much longer that our exposed chains.
 
21 - 40 of 56 Posts
Top