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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all I know this probably has been discussed ,but we all know the rear brake on these are somewhat useless , I have heard others have removed the main spring and this helped in some way , my question is has people here done this , are you replacing spring with one less strong or removing it altogether, if removed would it be safe
 

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Steny, I must've missed the memo about the useless rear brake...it's been working AOK so far.

Going without a return spring sounds like a VERY BAD IDEA.
 

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Removing the spring helps and really does not hurt anything. It's still safe. With the early bikes, many of us did it. The spring is basically a safety spring as we do have a spring inside the master cylinder . Also, hydraulic brakes really dont need a return spring.. They just dont work like that.

The stock brake has all kinds of problems. It's boring as hell, so PM me if you want details. The biggest problem is easy and cheap to solve. The rear pad compound is about what you might find on a child's tricycle. I think this was an effort to keep inexperienced riders safe on the early bikes. Abs was not very common on the 11 or 12 machines?

If you remove that spring and order this rear pad, the rear brake gets upgraded from useless to still garbage, but much better. At least it will be useable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vesrah-Sintered-Metal-Brake-Pads-VD-434JL-Sintered-Metal-VD-434JL-970762/233141712604?fits=Model:Ninja+1000|Make:Kawasaki&epid=171247924&hash=item36485436dc:g:h9YAAOSwyVBcbxcd
 

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Really? Relatively easy to lock up the rear wheel (my 2011) or engage the ABS (my 2014). And that with the OEM pads. For stronger but still linear braking I like Galfer pads. I'm not sure what "all kinds of problems" are but RC is the brake guru here so maybe...
 
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If you remove that spring and order this rear pad, the rear brake gets upgraded from useless to still garbage, but much better. At least it will be useable.
I did this on rcannon's advice about 40,000 miles ago on my 2015. I plan on doing the same on my 2020 SX if it performs the same as my 2015.

Big improvement, but ABS still intervenes way to early...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Removing the spring helps and really does not hurt anything. It's still safe. With the early bikes, many of us did it. The spring is basically a safety spring as we do have a spring inside the master cylinder . Also, hydraulic brakes really dont need a return spring.. They just dont work like that.

The stock brake has all kinds of problems. It's boring as hell, so PM me if you want details. The biggest problem is easy and cheap to solve. The rear pad compound is about what you might find on a child's tricycle. I think this was an effort to keep inexperienced riders safe on the early bikes. Abs was not very common on the 11 or 12 machines?

If you remove that spring and order this rear pad, the rear brake gets upgraded from useless to still garbage, but much better. At least it will be useable.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vesrah-Sintered-Metal-Brake-Pads-VD-434JL-Sintered-Metal-VD-434JL-970762/233141712604?fits=Model:Ninja+1000|Make:Kawasaki&epid=171247924&hash=item36485436dc:g:h9YAAOSwyVBcbxcd
I probably worded this wrong here , I don't mean it's useless I still get some braking I just mean compared to other bikes I had the rear on my 2011 seems it could be better etc , thanks for the info I'll send you a PM
 

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Kenors, that's the exact point, and the problem. The damn thing will lock up, no problem. However, up to that point, theres very little feel, or feedback. If a person moves up to a pad with more power, you are able to dial in some feedback before the lock up point.

As a reference point, if a person looks at aftermarket pads, the lowest rated I know of is that Galfer pad, rated "GG" in this scale: The brake pads sold in the usa HAVE to use this code. I think that's why we have trouble finding Brembo pads?

DOT Pad Codes

It's been a long time since I removed mine. As I recall, Kawasaki spaced "DF" rear pad. So little friction, it's not even on this scale and unless you ordered from Kawasaki, you wont find a pad that's that weak. The vesrah ones are stronger, but not as strong as the "HH" rated pad ebc sells.

Between that hard pad, and the heavy return spring, it's not very good for feel.

Rikifumi, for sure that spring has a purpose. If going without bothers anyone, find a smaller, less stiff spring from the hardware store. I believe Kawasaki went about 10x stiffer than needed just to be sure we dont lock the rear brake. Removing that spring is a band aid for what's really wrong, but it helps. Give it a try. You'll see the pedal returns just like it always did. You have to google something like " ninja 1000 weak rear brake" Theres stuff up there from 2012, on riderforum.

Steny, It's really worth looking at the rear brake before you do anything. Go out to the bike, and shine a flashlight into the bottom of the rear master cylinder. Notice how far you have to push the rear brake pedal to make it even start to depress the master cylinder. Think about how many times you pushed it, just a little, and never even overcame the play, and the strong spring.
 

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Steny, once upon a time I heard that Ireland gets the odd drop of rain. Maybe it was three or four? Since the rear caliper is a sliding pin single piston type, make sure those pins are clean and properly lubricated. The caliper location is perfect for copping dirt, road salt, and water.
 

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This is a cool product if you still want a return spring. In the past, I ordered one of each so I dont remember if our bike takes the 6mm or 8mm. I THINK it's the 6mm, but measure to be sure.

https://www.fasstco.com/products/rear-brake-return-spring

That gives you the ability to tune the return springs tension.

This part eliminates the play from the clevis to brake pedal.

https://www.fasstco.com/products/rear-brake-clevis

There are cheaper ways to fix the clevis, but this is really easy. With these parts in place, the play is removed, and the brake pedal actually pushes the master cylinder I stead of flopping around,
 

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All N1K model years run a BIG 250mm rear disc that's over 6mm thick. It's very heavy: the high brake disc mass gives more heat capacity and fade resistance. I think it's sized that way for good reason: on a bike made to accommodate two-up sport touring at speed (in EU this bike is very popular!) a generously sized rear disc is an asset when you're hauling down those mountain passes with the missus on back. And what if she doesn't resemble the gal in that Peloton commercial?

This same rear brake is probably over-spec'ed for lightly-loaded one-up duty, so they take the edge off it with the added return spring force and hydraulic ratios. Panic or errant lock-ups are less likely when this deliberate actuation is required. For a big-booted clydesdale like myself, it works AOK.

Keep in mind the Ninja 1000 has LOTS of forward weight transfer when stopping, which reduces rear tire grip available for braking. The rather short wheelbase, high center-of-gravity, street suspension, and weight make this so. Ultimately, braking force available is tire grip limited.
 

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If you think the N1K rear spring is bad, the H2 SX is much worse. It's like stepping on a brick. On both I found a much lighter spring so I could get feeling and feedback. I was much happier on both.
 

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The stock rear rotor is the same rotor that's used on the zx14.

It makes sense with what Rikifumi said. They did do all they could to reduce power because that disc was more appropriate for a 600lb machine. The heavy spring, and weak friction rating fit this idea.

Sounds like they tried to do the same on the h2sx?
 

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I upgraded my front brake, first. On the pre 2014 bikes, the front brake system was not very good. Although a good set of pads fixed it, I wanted to go further, and did.

Along the way, I found this old chart. There was very little info available. This chart is old enough to where the guy used his rd350 as an example, so it's old. I didnt much think about the chart as it had to be hopelessly outdated, and useless. Too old. Technology changes, right? Turns out, not so much. The chart is very accurate, and what he said was right on.

So, to the rear brake. I decide the chart is too old, outdated. Technology changes. Once again, I was the fool. Turns out, the chart is still correct.

https://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm

Our front master cylinder, to piston ratio fell right inline with what it should have. The rear , not so much. Our stock system uses a 14mm master cylinder and a 38mm single piston. According to the chart, that works out to a ratio of 7.37.

The old, antique, outdated chart says "Single piston calipers are much happier in the 14:1 to 12:1 range" again, it had to be bullshit....rd350? Serious? That's older than Kenors and I, put together.

I started checking the euro brands. Sure enough, the Ducati's, aprilia, and even the high end BMW s1000rr carbon frame bike . Sure enough, theirs were all in that 12 to 13 ratio. When I set my bike up at that 12.7 ratio, my rear brake started to have feel. That feel lasted all the way to the point of locking it up. You really have to work at it to lock it up. The feeling is there, and you know you are screwing up when you do.
 

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Thinking back I did lubricate the pivot for the rear brake pedal. The movement had become a bit stiff.

Other than that it worked fine. The only time I ever locked up the rear wheel accidentally was on my '11 in association with downshifting. That bike had a tremendous amount of engine braking that took some getting use to. I think it works fine as a rear brake with just about the right amount of power.

The only time I worry about a touchy feely rear brake is after a spirited ride. Touch the rotor and it will burn your fingers!
 
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Kenors, that's for sure. Our stock 2011 bikes felt like that rear brake was built into the throttle, didnt it? Close throttle, fly over handlebars.

It surprised me at how quickly we all adapted to it. Ivan's flash cured it, but up until that point, we were stuck with that heavy engine braking. I know some even liked it.
 

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RC - I think I remember that you installed a Brembo P32 caliber. What master cylinder (guessing it was a 1/2" based on the chart) did you install for the 12.7 ratio?
 

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I could not find a reasonable aftermarket master cylinder. All were expensive. I searched back, and the 2008-2010 zx10 uses a 1/2" rear master cylinder. I found a nice one, on ebay, for under 10.00 shipped. After 2010, they switched to a 14mm, just like we have.

The only strange part about this switch is having to order the "Active" brand caliper carrier, from Japan. I also bought a p34, but the 32 has more feel. Not as much power....32 is just right.

It's funny because this new brake is not awesome, or anything like that. After a day of riding, you dont think about it anymore. It's now something that works properly.

https://japan.webike.net/products/21962838.html
 

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I could not find a reasonable aftermarket master cylinder. All were expensive. I searched back, and the 2008-2010 zx10 uses a 1/2" rear master cylinder. I found a nice one, on ebay, for under 10.00 shipped. After 2010, they switched to a 14mm, just like we have.

The only strange part about this switch is having to order the "Active" brand caliper carrier, from Japan. I also bought a p34, but the 32 has more feel. Not as much power....32 is just right.

It's funny because this new brake is not awesome, or anything like that. After a day of riding, you dont think about it anymore. It's now something that works properly.

https://japan.webike.net/products/21962838.html

Got some pics ? In particular, I'm curious as to the ABS sensor mount. The pictures on Webike aren't very good.
 
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