Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I've reviewed his website. I own a 2015 Ninja 1000, just barely over 900mi. I'm reading up on his aribox mod, ECU flash, FCE, and a few other pieces. But I'm still unsure of it when reading it, because I'm the type of person who will overly dissect something he reads when making an important decision atleast a dozen times and complicate it for himself with so much second guessing. I don't want to call and bug the shop about it, and figured people here would know.

So as I'm reading it, the 2015 was apart of the overhaul that no longer needs a FCE, and PCV correct? Our ECU's were advanced enough for it to all be done with his flash just over the ECU. So all I need to do in that regard is send in my ECU and pay for the flash. It says the power commander is optional for this tune. What real bonus is there to get a power commander then? If he's saying it's optional, there's got to be some advantage to it. However I'm not seeing it listed. I plan on a HBE within the next month or two. But want to get his ECU flash now, because I like the fixes that it says it helps correct. Do I just resend my ECU to get flashed differently when I get the exhaust..Orrrr?

About exhaust. I really like the sound of the urban brawlers. Does anyone know off the top of their head if they akrapovik headers connect to urban brawlers? I'm looking around to find different headers..but all I can find are akrapovik headers..are we really limited to just 1 companies headers?

I feel like I'll get atleast ONE "use the search function" which I did, but didn't find what I needed. But if more seasoned users know off the top of their heads where to find my answers. No need to paraphrase and do the work for me. Just point me in the direction of the threads and I'll read it all myself gladly! :) thanks guys. I just complicate things for myself all the time. Did it with my g35, and then as soon as I'm done with the installation I'm always amazed at all the second guessing, and ways I complicate simple straight forward tasks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
828 Posts
You are correct, the 2014+ bikes don't need most of the other mods. Supposedly Ivan's tune is compatible with an exhaust but IF you plan on going with a header, tell him up front. Having a power commander will let you fine tune things if you want. If you want to extract every last bit of power out of the bike, then you might want it.

If you go headers on this bike, everything I've read says it will be very loud as the cat in the stock pipe mutes it quite a bit. If you are going for the fastest bike, maybe a different bike would be a better platform to start with. I never investigated too deep into the headers because of the noise issues. I like to ride fast and being NOISY & fast, just attracts more attention.

My suggestion would be go with Ivan's tune and tell him you plan to do a full header exhaust later. He'll get you pretty close. If you want to extract every HP out of the bike, then you'll need a dyno tune and a PC to make the adjustments if required.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,308 Posts
I believe Ivan is using the power commander, on this specific install, and a fine tuning thing. On our older bikes, we had cells calling for +30, so you had to have one. Not so much, here. If your ok having fueling thats "pretty good" you can skip it.

Look more at the other things as why your doing this.


Outside of Arrow, there really is not another header. Plus, the arrow is not as good, so....

Call him for specifics, Hes a cool guy.

As far as selecting a different bike....uh, wow. Who would have guessed that would work? However, he has a new ninja 1000, so maybe we will start there?

As far as not getting the header...Its 600 bucks, and offers 12 hp. You wont find a better gain for dollar value anywhere. Will you ever use it?

Plus, you keep the low end that so nice on this machine.

If you look a this 3rd gen dyno chart, it shows a lot. At 6000 rpm, its 15hp stronger than BMW's s1000xr.

Its pretty potent after hes finished, and when you add the header. Its thousands cheaper, reliable, 50lbs lighter, and you already own it.

I dont know if you will like the noise level with a header going into urban brawlers. I feel like the brawlers are menat more for a stock system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
Hey Boss don't be so hard on yourself, and anyone who tells you to use the search function tell them to honestly F off. Takes more time to type out "use the search button" than it does to copy and paste a helpful link.

Those people are honestly idiots.

As I understand it the 2015 for sure needs no FCE, that is done in the ECU. And the Power Commander is optional; because it is expensive for what it offers on this bike.

Some bikes it is simply needed, but on your bike he can get you 90% of the way there without a Power Commander, but for the people who want the full 100% then the PC is a must.

So you just have to decide which guy are you, the 90% guy or the 100% guy.

As far as the header, Akro makes a great exhaust for these bikes. It makes power and sounds great.

If you really want UB's then I have no experience with that and cannot help you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,756 Posts
If you get urban brawlers and the headers i dont think you will get by riding it on the street, there is a clip on you tube with the header and urban brawler and dang that sucker is loud i mean real loud.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
828 Posts
I don't know what dyno chart RC was referencing, but here is one from the naked bike shootout. The Z has the same motor as the Ninja, the S1000R, the same as the S1000XR. I have no idea why he chose to reference that bike. Actually I do but it doesn't matter. Apparently he has target fixation. :D

You really need to define what your goals are. Take a holistic approach to your mods. Have a clear vision of what you want to accomplish. Be realistic about it. Do you want the headers for more power? More noise? Less weight? All of the above? Do you need an extra 12 HP as RC claims? Do you worry about any warranty impacts or is your bike out of warranty? Obviously the ECU swap is going to be an issue but you could always send it back and have it reflashed back to stock if need be. Of course you could go to the trouble to pull the header and so on.

You could always just go the flash to start, put on the brawlers and see if it is good enough. It is a pretty good all around package that way. You get better low and mid than it had stock and you get some nice weight savings from the brawlers.

As you can see from the dyno chart, Kawi did a pretty good job with having a pretty linear power curve. Here is an interesting thread on the other forum you might want to read. He got some nice gains with the header. I don't see the massive improvement he was talking about at 6k, maybe he was thinking about the S1000RR.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,756 Posts
That super duke wants to climb off the horsepower chart
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
828 Posts
I think they rate them at about 175 at the crank. The S1000R is rated at 160. I thought the Ninja/Z motors were rated at about 140 or so at the crank. I don't recall what the Ducs were at the crank. It seems like BMW might be under rating their HP just a bit. The other bikes are losing about 10% from crank to rear wheel and the BMW is maybe 3%. Somebody is fudging numbers somewhere.

All the mags seem to get pretty close to the same dyno results for the bikes +/- 1-2 hp. So either BMW has an incredibly efficient drivetrain (it doesn't) or the bike is making more than 160 at the crank (more likely).

Anyway as strong as the KTM looks in that dyno chart is how it feels in real life. :D I didn't have the torque chart handy but it looks pretty good too.

It is the classic example of no replacement for displacement. Same premise as the ZX14R. Too bad they made it so heavy from the factory. Hard to believe it weighs almost 100lbs more than the Ninja.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
BMW is known to communicate lower hp's then they have. It's like that on almost every model.
What this chart doesn't show is torque, and it puts the 1290 in a totally different league then the rest.

About the FCE & ECU tune.
the FCE functions are in the ECU mod, so you don't need them both.
This counts for all models.
I had an FCE, then bought the ECU (1 year later), I sold my FCE to a friend who has a 2015 model, and the same results count for his SX too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,308 Posts
Day, we use Ivans modified numbers for the ninja and z. Reason being is that the guy asked about Ivans modified bikes.

Ivan's Performance Products

Had he asked about stock bikes, your chart would be right on.

Your chart proves my point. For very little money, he makes the z/ninja bikes run about as well, up top, and better down low.

As far as being target fixated, I dont know how to answer other than to say only one of us is dumb enough to think this is the BMW forum. I imagine the BMW guys see through the simulations?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,308 Posts
Speaking of dyno charts. If you took Ivans 3rd gen, fully modified chart, and put it into this mix. I wish I had the knowledge to do so.

But if you do, the modified Ninja matches up well with the KTM. If you look at the power at 3000, 6000, and 9000, the ninja is right with it.

I know the ktm is all plugged up, but thats pretty impressive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
So here's where I am, and why I am.
First off, thank you all very much for the responses. Much insight was gained.
My friends who race, talked me out of getting the zx6r because they said itd kill me...now that I own this bike and have ridden around I know I want to track and do what they do. So they were like than go buy a SS now. So I went in to see what it would cost me to trade my $9,999 brand new bike in for the $10,699 2015 zx6r..well with **** trade in value..its cost me 5 grand to trade it in. I wanted to punch them in the face for making me not get the bike I wanted to begin with lol

So, I'm instead gonna mod my bike to the best of my ability, and have as much fun as I can at the track with it. So I'm looking at what all I can do. Which is why I'm inquiring. I really love the bike. I'm doing the exhaust weight reduction, tune, and aribox mod. Then I'll work on lightening the bike to get more out of it, and suspension.

I appreciate the help guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,308 Posts
If you are not happy with the basic bike, stop now. You will never turn it into what you want. Daytrippers story here is a perfect example.

By the time you finish the mods you are talking about, you would have enough for a nice, used zx6, or a substantial part of it covered.

That's silly how a zx6 will kill you, but a heavier, faster bike will not.

From here out, listen to yourself more than the friends.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
828 Posts
Tallstraw - think carefully. Will the bike be where you want it to be AFTER you make all these mods? Are you going down a rabbit hole? Fortunately I have quite a few bikes so I could take a shot at getting the Ninja to where I wanted it to be.

Instead of trading it in, try selling it yourself. You won't take a 5k hit on it that way. There are several people on this forum that are looking for bikes right now. Look around and maybe connect with them.

If you are looking for a lightweight super sport bike, the Ninja will never be that bike. You can sink a lot of money into this bike in a hurry. You may get very little of that money back if you decide to bail out. For me it wasn't as terrible as it could have been.

Before you start throwing money at this, think it through. Have realistic expectations. Try and ride a modded one, lots of them around, to see if you can get to where you want to be. By the time you do exhaust, ECU, suspension, etc. You can easily drop 3-4k on this bike. You know what it will be worth? About what a stock on is if you go to sell it.

Do you really plan on keeping it long enough to warrant that investment? Investment isn't a good term as motorcycles in general are depreciating assets. Think of it as throwing money at a stripper. Will you get enough enjoyment for the time you ride the bike that it is worth it? If you are going to keep it 4-5 years, then it might be worth it.

In my situation I was in the saddle for 8-10 hours minimum on each leg of my commute. Any issue for me became quite obvious as I'd have to deal with it for an entire day's ride. Then take a break for a day or 2 and then ride back on my commute.

Vibes that might not bother me for an hour of riding made my hands numb after 5. How much do the things you don't like about the Ninja really bother you? The Ninja is a pretty fast, reasonably competent bike, that is pretty easy to ride at something other than a track pace in stock setup.

I'd really caution you to not just start buying parts yet. If you do, maybe look for some used ones to lessen your outlay of cash. If you really want to track the bike, you clearly have the wrong bike. Maybe look at buying a cheap SV650 or some thing for track days. For the money you will dump into this, you might be ahead if you have a place to keep a track bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
711 Posts
So here's where I am, and why I am.

(clipped for space)


My suggestion would be for a cheaper, used ZX6R for the track, and the N1K for commute/etc. You would lose quite a bit on the N1K for trade towards a ZX6R.

I do feel that a ZX6R would be uncomfortable for everyday use (though, I feel that way about any SS bike)


As RC said, you may not get all you want out of the N1K for track use. I would run a session with it stock to see if it's really that horrible that a few modifications couldn't fix before I go ape with a lot of changes, sinking you further into a hole.

Granted, if you're not "in it to win it" and are just wanting to toss the bike around without restrictions, the creature features of the N1K (re: electronics) might make track days more enjoyable. You should also figure the torque this bike produces, and with a couple tweaks it is a very capable bike. I did give a couple a **** of a run this weekend after my Ivan's tune. ^.^

"Lady in the streets; freak in the sheets" kind of thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rcannon409

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,308 Posts
Tallstray, I I can ask a question?

Please tell me some other form of riding you want to do where the ninja 1000 works for you? A 50 mile commute to work or a 5 day a week trip to school.

If that type of riding is not included, and its all track, this bike makes no sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
So here's where I am, and why I am.
First off, thank you all very much for the responses. Much insight was gained.
My friends who race, talked me out of getting the zx6r because they said itd kill me...now that I own this bike and have ridden around I know I want to track and do what they do. So they were like than go buy a SS now. So I went in to see what it would cost me to trade my $9,999 brand new bike in for the $10,699 2015 zx6r..well with **** trade in value..its cost me 5 grand to trade it in. I wanted to punch them in the face for making me not get the bike I wanted to begin with lol

So, I'm instead gonna mod my bike to the best of my ability, and have as much fun as I can at the track with it. So I'm looking at what all I can do. Which is why I'm inquiring. I really love the bike. I'm doing the exhaust weight reduction, tune, and aribox mod. Then I'll work on lightening the bike to get more out of it, and suspension.

I appreciate the help guys.
Well you are grown and going to do whatever you want to regardless....

that said while you CAN do track days on this bike, and it can be quite a hoot, it's not the ideal bike for track days.

You really should not be tracking anything that has a payment really, but for sure tracking a heavy short wheelbase strong low end bike that's made for sport touring is just asking for trouble, especially when you factor in trying to keep up with your friends.

Your situation is why God put on earth $2,000 used F4I and GSXR 600 track bikes....lol It you track it and total it then you are not in a financial bind.

Makes WAY more sense to have a cheap track bike that you use to go hoot it up with your friends, and then use the Ninja 1000 as God intended, comfy trips and surprise wheelies everywhere...lol

And to be very blunt, unless you are pretty fast, mods won't really make you any faster/quicker at the track. For sure not power mods...lol You need tires and track time.

I have a link to a Ninja 1000 on the track somewhere. It was a hoot, I had super fun, but I worked harder for what i got then the guys on the SS bikes did, and ultimately they are faster around a track as that is what they are made to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7F1GYYoV6Y
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
So here's where I am, and why I am.
First off, thank you all very much for the responses. Much insight was gained.
My friends who race, talked me out of getting the zx6r because they said itd kill me...now that I own this bike and have ridden around I know I want to track and do what they do. So they were like than go buy a SS now. So I went in to see what it would cost me to trade my $9,999 brand new bike in for the $10,699 2015 zx6r..well with **** trade in value..its cost me 5 grand to trade it in. I wanted to punch them in the face for making me not get the bike I wanted to begin with lol

So, I'm instead gonna mod my bike to the best of my ability, and have as much fun as I can at the track with it. So I'm looking at what all I can do. Which is why I'm inquiring. I really love the bike. I'm doing the exhaust weight reduction, tune, and aribox mod. Then I'll work on lightening the bike to get more out of it, and suspension.

I appreciate the help guys.
Like others have said, I'd suggest you look at the WERA classifieds for picking up a well sorted out, used (and probably not legal for the street) bike for the track if that's what you're looking for. There are tons of R6's, and usually other middleweight bikes (though many fewer) that can be had for $5-6K. So instead of trading in your Ninja + $5k, just get the track bike for the $5k and now you have both. And the track bike doesn't cost you anything to insure or register.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
483 Posts
I totally agree with .. 'get a track bike'. The N1K is a touring bike that is quick.. keep it ! any ride longer than an hour and the N1K excels. But pick up a slightly scratched SS with couch money, throw some slicks on it and go tear up the track!

If you can find an SS that only fell off the stand but scratched up the fairings you can get a steal! Track bikes like track cars.. will eventually end up off-road. Don't get something nice to do that too, unless you have endless funds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,106 Posts
The N1K does need Ivan's tune to fix the crappy throttle response but has plenty of power for the track; the torque may actually be an advantage in slower corners; no need to downshift as much. Its major shortcoming as a track bike will be handling. It's pretty heavy and the feedback isn't the greatest. The pegs may be a bit too low as well once you get into aggressive lean angles.

That said, I'd love to give it a go on the track to see how it stacks up. It may be better than you expect.
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top