[jjscsix]

I just installed new pads yesterday. After a very short 25mph ride up and down my street, the wheel would spin about 1/4 turn on the stand. Before changing them it would spin a couple of rotations easily. I pulled them off and found that both sets of pads (both front wheels) looked like this.

I cleaned the pads per the many articles and videos I’ve read over the years. I did not touch the rotors. I have changed brake pads easily 100 times and never have had this happen. I have taken them off twice now, recleaned them, checked the movement of the pistons etc. I also took it on a 50 mile ride after I thought I had it fixed.

I sanded the pads between “fixes” by laying the sandpaper flat on a very flat surface and did circular motions with the pads. The scuffing you see came out very easily, it is just surface scratches. Everytime I made a test run they came back the same. I had the front wheel off a last week, so I even pulled it off again to be sure there was no problem with how it was mounted. Nothing!

I also did a very thorough fluid flush.

Im totally stumped. I did put it back together and rode it down the street slowly again. It is spinning better but not great so I’m not expecting that I have fixed it. I will do another short ride tomorrow and pull them off again.

Any suggestions? What is really odd is that both pads on both calipers look the same. What are the odds I did something wrong on both!

 

[Johnmark101]

My best guess based on the information you have provided is that the backing plates are not perfectly flat and may be slightly warped. This could be due to something that went wrong during the stamping process during manufacturing.

Otherwise I am stumped.

 

[Matt-CO]

This almost sounds like 2 different issues; the pads rubbing on the rotors, and uneven pad wear.

Any chance the caliper pistons are sticking? That would explain the wheel not spinning as easily.

I've never taken newly replaced brake pads off so soon, but new brakes take time to fully bed.

Try bedding in the brakes and see if that makes a difference. How to Break In Motorcycle Brakes - The Aftermarket Experience

 

[jjscsix]

My best guess based on the information you have provided is that the backing plates are not perfectly flat and may be slightly warped. This could be due to something that went wrong during the stamping process during manufacturing.

Otherwise I am stumped.

I actually used a steel ruler and checked both sides and the art perfectly flat.

This almost sounds like 2 different issues; the pads rubbing on the rotors, and uneven pad wear.

Any chance the caliper pistons are sticking? That would explain the wheel not spinning as easily.

I've never taken newly replaced brake pads off so soon, but new brakes take time to fully bed.

Try bedding in the brakes and see if that makes a difference. How to Break In Motorcycle Brakes - The Aftermarket Experience

Its not uneven pad wear because they are brand new pads. I too wonder about the pistons sticking. But I don’t know what I did that would have caused it. Everything was fine before I replaced the pads and cleaned everything. I used brake cleaner and I used my compressor to blow dry it. I have now moved all the pistons in and out several times.

I can’t help come back to the fact that both calipers the pads look exactly the same. That would point to the fact that something is up with the new pads. Or that the wheel was not mounted properly, but I didn’t find anything wrong when I took it off.

I will watch the video on bedding them.

thanks for the replies.

 

[Energydrinkvape]

Did you change the type of pad? Most recommend to thoroughly clean the rotors when you change the type of pad. Scotch brite and brake cleaner

 

[Oramac]

Did you change the type of pad? Most recommend to thoroughly clean the rotors when you change the type of pad. Scotch brite and brake cleaner

I was going to suggest this too. Additionally, check the rotors and make sure they aren't even slightly warped.

Given the info already provided, this is a tricky one! I suppose it's possible that the pad material itself isn't even either. Never seen that happen, but there's a first time for everything.

 

[jjscsix]

EBC HH pads. Good advice, thanks

 

[rcannon409]

We need to start warning people about these EBC HH pads. I would return them and ask for anything else before your rotors are damaged. If you have to buy something from a shop, at least the Galfer pad is built with a decent, square backing plate and has the pin in the proper location. Not a great pad, but it won't damage the rotors .

I never felt the EBC performance was worth solving the drag problem. As to what causes the excess drag, who knows, but you can use any other reasonable pad and not have the dragging issue .

You could try removing the left caliper. If the wheel/axle alignment is way off, the caliper can sit a bit sideways to the rotor. Otherwise, it's mostly an EBC issue. I believe they must think no one will notice?

ebc brake pads and brake drag - Google Search

 

[Minlak]

You mention you did a bleed with fresh fluid? - To me it looks like the piston/s is not returning from being pressed in - they move freely when not under load and you are compressing them back in but they should slightly retract again by themselves after the lever press to put them on - otherwise pads would always be rubbing on every bike - The pads are not going to be the issue IMHO.

I would be looking at the fluid system to be honest

 

[rcannon409]

Fluid could do it if it were overfilled.

You would also need to seal the master cylinders cover to make it hold pressure when you released the lever. If you didn't seal the cap, the extra fluid would leak out.

Fluid or the hundred other threads where people had EBC pads and excess brake drag?....I think I know where I would start.

 

[Minlak]

Fluid could do it if it were overfilled.

You would also need to seal the master cylinders cover to make it hold pressure when you released the lever. If you didn't seal the cap, the extra fluid would leak out.

Fluid or the hundred other threads where people had EBC pads and excess brake drag?....I think I know where I would start.

I only use Brembo pads so don't know about the EBC but unless the pad is not flat and causes one piston to extend further than the other to apply pressure - The only other possible issue with the EBC pads would be that they are thicker and out of spec for the bike - this drag should abate after the initial wear down of the pads.

 

[jjscsix]

Addressing the last few comments.

I have used the same EBC pads on many bikes and have had no problems with them at all - None. If nothing else fixes the issue I will consider different pads, but I would be throwing away brand new $80 pads. Not way do I see them taking them back after I installed them.

Yes, I used fresh brake fluid. I have no idea why the fluid would be the problem. I have bled brakes many, many times and am very careful watch the level in the reservoir. I also saw no bubbles at any time during the process and I sucked a lot of new fluid through both calipers. I used a vacuum pump. I should point out to that I did not bleed the brakes until after I discovered something was amiss.

I really don’t think the pistons are the problem. Could be wrong but that’s my feeling right now.

At this point I think the problem is likely that I got too agressive on the brakes when I rode the bike about a mile in my neighborhood. I was only going 23-30 miles an hour, but still is probably the problem in my opinion. Remember that everything was working perfectly before I changed the pads Saturday.

Per advice above, I thoroughly cleaned the discs today. I pulled the calipers off to be sure I did not contaminate the new pads but I did not retract the pads at all, and everything looked good.

The roads are wet right now so I won’t be able to ride it until tomorrow. I’ll report back. Thanks again for all the suggestions.

 

[Minlak]

The roads are wet right now so I won’t be able to ride it until tomorrow. I’ll report back. Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Assume if we don't get a report they didn't work

 

[rcannon409]

Makes sense. Brembo makes excellent pads and wouldn't do this. I believe Bembo Laser cuts their pads and you get smooth edges .

Look at the sides of the pad backing plate, and the raised edges. The extra flashing on the backing plate causes them to hang up in the caliper. If forced to use them, you have to go around the edge of the baking and file them smooth where they contact the rotor. Like building a plastic car model kit.

At this point, you can match the new pad to the oem Kawasaki pad and drill out the locating pin and make it match,a d make them smooth .

The pin can also cause issues if it doesn't let the pad float correctly.

 

[jjscsix]

Assume if we don't get a report they didn't work

I can admit when I’m wrong. I saw a saying years ago that I really like. ”What I lack in intelligence I make up for in self confidence and persistence.“. I (think) I made up this one “everyone is smart and everyone is stupid, just in different subjects”.

I actually do have good news though. The sun came out and dried the roads. I just did about a mile with several 25-30mph moderate brakings. Everything was very smooth and no unusual sounds. I got home and put it up on Jack stands. I can now spin the wheel a full revolution when I let go of it. Saturday it was about 1/4 revolution.

 

[jjscsix]

Makes sense. Brembo makes excellent pads and wouldn't do this. I believe Bembo Laser cuts their pads and you get smooth edges .

Look at the sides of the pad backing plate, and the raised edges. The extra flashing on the backing plate causes them to hang up in the caliper. If forced to use them, you have to go around the edge of the baking and file them smooth where they contact the rotor. Like building a plastic car model kit.

At this point, you can match the new pad to the oem Kawasaki pad and drill out the locating pin and make it match,a d make them smooth .

The pin can also cause issues if it doesn't let the pad float correctly.

I had that happen on a car once. I had to ground a little of the edges. Needless to say it was a brand I would never buy again except that I don’t remember the brand. I don’t do car brake work any more though due to the complexities that some of them have.

 

[Oramac]

I (think) I made up this one “everyone is smart and everyone is stupid, just in different subjects”.

Sounds like a paraphrased version of Albert Einstein: “Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

Glad to hear it's working better now! Happy riding!

 

[jjscsix]

Sounds like a paraphrased version of Albert Einstein: “Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.” – Albert Einstein

Glad to hear it's working better now! Happy riding!

I’ve never heard that one. I like it.

 

[rcannon409]

One turn is not awesome, but I'll bet that improves after 500 miles, or so?

It's hard to judge pad wear like we do on cars. Our motorcycle pads start life with about 4.5mm of pad material. Not a lot to work with, or judge. I usually replace way too early just to avoid a problem.

 

[jjscsix]

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

I put 120 miles in the bike today. I had high hopes that all would be well. The bike brakes great and gave no indications of any problems….until I got home.

I put the bike on the stands and gave the wheel a spin. One-quarter revolution!!! Pulled the calipers and found uneven wear, different from the first pics, and again both calipers the pads looked identical. And they had hot spots on them. I know I did nothing to heat them up, and it was a 50 degree day. The hots spots had to be from the dragging.

So I gave the OEM pads I was replacing a good cleaning, put them back on the bike and went for a 20 mile ride with plenty of stabs at the brakes from 70 MPH. Get home, back on the stands. Wheel spins like five FULL revolutions. Almost like it was going to spin forever.

I’ve been on the internet looking at pads. My first thought is to go with OEM pads. They served me well. I’m also considering the Versah but having a problem finding them listed for the bike on sites I already have an account with.

Frankly I’m glad the problem is the EBC pads. That means it’s not something I did wrong. I do plan to call Revzilla tomorrow and see if the will take them back or at least give me a discounted price on other pads. They can probably sell me the OEM pads but I can’t find them in an online search.

thanks for all the help