[Ksn]

When did this overheat situation start? A 2017 should have had a coolant change, but even if it was stock, the coolant system isnt that old to where you needed to work on the pump and seals.

Some of the parts you have asked about (throttle cables, brake lines) make me think this is a rebuild rather than an upgrade project that went off course?

Keep in mind I have no idea who you are or your skill level. At times I'm thinking there is a high skill level, then I hear" idle for 45 minutes" and that brings me back down to earth. With that kind of idle time , I'm surprised the paint stayed on the cases.

The more info you disclose about you and the bike, the better. Good info like "it's been flashed" rather than drama like "seconds from blowing head gasket". If your head gasket survived 45 minutes of idle, it's fine.

It’s not a rebuild. It’s a perfectly maintained bike that had a water pump failure that caused issues of overheating that led it to be worked on since. It’s been so many months that in the meantime of waiting on parts pertaining to that I did other upgrades. Didn’t mean for those inquiries to cause so much concern.

I agree but unfortunately reality does not seem to apply to this situation. How a motorcycle can idle for 45 minutes but overheat nearing engine failure within 30 seconds stumps me.

 

[Ksn]

When did this overheat situation start? A 2017 should have had a coolant change, but even if it was stock, the coolant system isnt that old to where you needed to work on the pump and seals.

Some of the parts you have asked about (throttle cables, brake lines) make me think this is a rebuild rather than an upgrade project that went off course?

Keep in mind I have no idea who you are or your skill level. At times I'm thinking there is a high skill level, then I hear" idle for 45 minutes" and that brings me back down to earth. With that kind of idle time , I'm surprised the paint stayed on the cases.

The more info you disclose about you and the bike, the better. Good info like "it's been flashed" rather than drama like "seconds from blowing head gasket". If your head gasket survived 45 minutes of idle, it's fine.

Have the water pump open right now to see what is going on with that side. Should the impeller blade spin freely by hand when engaged with the oil drive shaft gear, or only when the bike is on will those spin together? It is engaged with the oil driveshaft gear but is not able to be spun by hand.

 

[rcannon409]

Thank you and it makes more sense now.

I would look at the flash. Your cooking system and oil system would need to be pretty good to last at 45 minutes of idle time or the engine would have locked up . Nothing actually cools the engine cases except air flow. Having them get hot with no airflow is expected.

We still don't know about the flash, but fan on/off temps don't have much to do with the engines operating temps. I know that sounds ridiculous, but the ECU is ultimately in charge of the running temps. I'm thinking you bought the kit and made some changes?

If everything is not perfect it's almost like I set my gps to take me to the north Pole, but I drive towards south America. It won't be long before the gps wants me to make a u turn.

This is even more serious on the bike. The emissions compliance has time limits. That bike has to get warm enough to pass them within about a minute.

If it can't do this because the fans kick on early, it's not going to tolerate that. The ecu is going to start asking the engine to do crazy **** to get itself up to temperature.

When people flash, they don't give us all the details, but when they say "lower fan temps" they really mean "lower fan temps, and deal with the 150 other issues that lowering f those temps caused".

 

[Ksn]

Thank you and it makes more sense now.

I would look at the flash. Your cooking system and oil system would need to be pretty good to last at 45 minutes of idle time or the engine would have locked up . Nothing actually cools the engine cases except air flow. Having them get hot with no airflow is expected.

We still don't know about the flash, but fan on/off temps don't have much to do with the engines operating temps. I know that sounds ridiculous, but the ECU is ultimately in charge of the running temps. I'm thinking you bought the kit and made some changes?

If everything is not perfect it's almost like I set my gps to take me to the north Pole, but I drive towards south America. It won't be long before the gps wants me to make a u turn.

This is even more serious on the bike. The emissions compliance has time limits. That bike has to get warm enough to pass them within about a minute.

If it can't do this because the fans kick on early, it's not going to tolerate that. The ecu is going to start asking the engine to do crazy **** to get itself up to temperature.

When people flash, they don't give us all the details, but when they say "lower fan temps" they really mean "lower fan temps, and deal with the 150 other issues that lowering f those temps caused".

Update.. made some adjustments and ran without cap on rear reservoir. 10 minutes in, coolant boiled out of rear reservoir. Thinking thermometer is broken, or water pump is still not functioning?

 

[Brian60]

Update.. made some adjustments and ran without cap on rear reservoir. 10 minutes in, coolant boiled out of rear reservoir. Thinking thermometer is broken, or water pump is still not functioning?

What adjustments did you make? Now coolant is boiling at idle after 10 minutes? Sounds like water pump is not working or thermostat stuck closed. But that wouldn't make sense since before you said you could run at idle 45 min with no overheating. Maybe drain coolant take off the water pump cover, pull coils and hit the start button and see if water pump impeller rotates.

 

[rcannon409]

I don't think we are helping. If I were this guy, I would download a service manual and start there. I'm not sure forum rules allow us to discuss how we find "free Kawasaki service manuals", but they are available.

I assume rear reservoir means the coolant overflow bottle and adjustments means he is the one doing the ECU reflashing?

A thermostat stops coolant flowing through a radiator. If the coolant flows through, it cools.

The fact that the coolant boiling at the overflow bottle would lead one to believe hot coolant is getting to the radiator.

At this point I would go back to my stock flash and see if the bike overheats. Extended idle time is bad for the bike under normal circumstances . If the cooking system is defective or your ecu setting are off, this makes it even worse, but we already talked about that and it made no difference.

From here on it's going to be difficult to know if the problems are related to a bad cooling system, or damage you have done from these repeated idle test procedures that no one in their right mind would recommend.



.

 

[Ksn]

What adjustments did you make? Now coolant is boiling at idle after 10 minutes? Sounds like water pump is not working or thermostat stuck closed. But that wouldn't make sense since before you said you could run at idle 45 min with no overheating. Maybe drain coolant take off the water pump cover, pull coils and hit the start button and see if water pump impeller rotates.

Thank you!

 

[Ksn]

I don't think we are helping. If I were this guy, I would download a service manual and start there. I'm not sure forum rules allow us to discuss how we find "free Kawasaki service manuals", but they are available.

I assume rear reservoir means the coolant overflow bottle and adjustments means he is the one doing the ECU reflashing?

A thermostat stops coolant flowing through a radiator. If the coolant flows through, it cools.

The fact that the coolant boiling at the overflow bottle would lead one to believe hot coolant is getting to the radiator.

At this point I would go back to my stock flash and see if the bike overheats. Extended idle time is bad for the bike under normal circumstances . If the cooking system is defective or your ecu setting are off, this makes it even worse, but we already talked about that and it made no difference.

From here on it's going to be difficult to know if the problems are related to a bad cooling system, or damage you have done from these repeated idle test procedures that no one in their right mind would recommend.



.

You seem perturbed in your responses.
No changes have been made to the ECU by myself. The last test I did I had the reservoir closed by mistake. Extended idle is only because the bike would overheat within 10 minutes before.

 

[Ksn]

Thank you!

Thermostat is functioning. Took it out and tested it. Will try your good recommendation on seeing if water pump is working. Spent a couple hours and almost got it stripped down with cylinder head off. Need to see if head gasket blown from original overheat way back.
I replaced all the parts for the water pump during attempting to fix this problem, and the new impeller shaft shows significant wear (bike has only been run twice). When I referred to “adjustments” I had loosened the clutch hub but as it seemed to have tightened for some reason, causing the hub to be hard to spin. Something is causing drag/resistance. Worst case scenario, I will have to split the crankcase and replace a bearing.

 

[rcannon409]

I'm more surprised, I think?. Confusion on my part is the best emotion I can think of, but I am enjoying the story. This story is how and why former excellent bikes get parted out on ebay.

Your idle testing has probably overheated the main bearings and ruined them.

When you test machines, your test methods can't be set up to where they do more harm than good. Even 10 minutes of idle is about 7 minutes too long.

It's not a great cooling system test. Even if it were, it's not working for you. You still are not sure your pump, or thermostat is working, right?

It also isn't going to prove your ecu reflash is correct as the idle circuits don't have much to do with what would happen at 2000 rpm and above.

That's where the confusion comes from. If a test has the ability to cause harm, and teaches the tester nothing, most would stop and find a new test.

It's always ok to stop and get a mechanic to look at a bike. At this point you can hope no serious damage is done. Once you open that engine, that idea is going to be over.

 

[Ksn]

I'm more surprised, I think?. Confusion on my part is the best emotion I can think of, but I am enjoying the story. This story is how and why former excellent bikes get parted out on ebay.

Your idle testing has probably overheated the main bearings and ruined them.

When you test machines, your test methods can't be set up to where they do more harm than good. Even 10 minutes of idle is about 7 minutes too long.

It's not a great cooling system test. Even if it were, it's not working for you. You still are not sure your pump, or thermostat is working, right?

It also isn't going to prove your ecu reflash is correct as the idle circuits don't have much to do with what would happen at 2000 rpm and above.

That's where the confusion comes from. If a test has the ability to cause harm, and teaches the tester nothing, most would stop and find a new test.

It's always ok to stop and get a mechanic to look at a bike. At this point you can hope no serious damage is done. Once you open that engine, that idea is going to be over.

3 minutes isn’t enough time to even get up to operating temperature even. I take it you are not one to work on your own bike? Your dislike for me seems to be rooted in that.

 

[rcannon409]

I don't dislike you. You sound like a decent person. Odd and confusing, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Burning up your bike is some of the best excitement we have had here in a long time and I look forward to what's next.

I'm not sure how I would rate my own mechanical abilities, but both of my street bikes are 10 years older than yours and run without overheating. By any measurement that goes in the plus column.

Abilities....I change my coolant on a regular basis. Because of this, I don't have water pump issues and have never had to ask a forum full of strangers how to fix my cooling system.

It sounds like you are young? When someone who knows what they are doing is critical of your poor mechanical skills, that means they care enough to try to help you. This is being honest and telling g you the truth. People who don't like you would sit back, laugh, and wait for your parted out bike to be on ebay .

The unfortunate part here is that every procedure you are working on is covered in the manual. Using the manual would have prevented the damage and allowed you to fix your bike without burning it up.

 

[Pmack]

My thought would be a blown head gasket(or cracked head), and what you are assuming to be boiling is actually compression being pushed out through the cooling system.
It may not do it at idle, but once the revs rise it does.

 

[rcannon409]

Pmac, I can't think of any argument against that. Especially once you factor in several occasions where it overheated. The idea fits.

Not that we need several. Just once will do it on these lightweight engines.

I hope for this posters sake you are wrong, but ..

 

[Pmack]

You could try re-torquing the head bolts and see if there are any changes.
I know of a 2021 Z900 that blew a head gasket in 6k miles. Experienced older owner, well maintained, etc.
That engine may have been built on a Friday afternoon, or a Monday morning after a rough weekend.

 

[rcannon409]

This would be the first blown head gasket we have had here in over 10 years. Not likely to be an error on Kawasakis part.

Most issues end up being this way and I appreciate KSN's honesty in what he's doing. Most warranty problems happened when the owner was "just riding along, and suddenly!!!"

 

[rcannon409]

Ksn, any updates on the problem?

Don't worry about making mistakes on this. I'm sure we have all been there. I have. Some mistakes are more costly than others, but it is a learning g experience.

The thing I would concentrate on is that water pump and to make sure that cooling system is 100% ok before making any repair.

 

[Ksn]

I don't dislike you. You sound like a decent person. Odd and confusing, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Burning up your bike is some of the best excitement we have had here in a long time and I look forward to what's next.

I'm not sure how I would rate my own mechanical abilities, but both of my street bikes are 10 years older than yours and run without overheating. By any measurement that goes in the plus column.

Abilities....I change my coolant on a regular basis. Because of this, I don't have water pump issues and have never had to ask a forum full of strangers how to fix my cooling system.

It sounds like you are young? When someone who knows what they are doing is critical of your poor mechanical skills, that means they care enough to try to help you. This is being honest and telling g you the truth. People who don't like you would sit back, laugh, and wait for your parted out bike to be on ebay .

The unfortunate part here is that every procedure you are working on is covered in the manual. Using the manual would have prevented the damage and allowed you to fix your bike without burning it up.

I used the manual. I didn’t burn it up. It’s overheating and I’ve been trying to fix for many months. If I was lacking maturity I would’ve taken it and melted it down on the highway months ago and then act surprised when it stopped working.
What is the purpose of your last statement? I use the manual for every process, including by now disassembling and reassembling the engine.. this post was made because the cause for overheating could not be found. If the answer is, use the manual, what is the purpose of a forum?

Again, nothing is going to be parted out. I guess others are too afraid to ask questions pertaining to difficult issues because they do not want to face this backlash.

 

[rcannon409]

Ksn, this is responding to the facts you have offered. This isn't you as a person. Maybe I should have been nicer when I said it, but when you start with a simple water pump rebuild and end up tearing apart an engine, Im not sure this is a successful repair? The only think I've been guilty of is telling you the truth and helping you to avoid more damage.

Let's go back to the start.

You started with a simple problem it 100 times worse with your diagnostic methods. You talk about repeating these harmful diagnostic methods 40 times. That doesn't speak very well for mechanical abilities or knowledge in the subject.

It's always ok to ask questions, but this isnt Facebook. The answers here will be accurate, even if it hurts your feelings or goes against what you think is true. If we can't have that, the forum might as well be Facebook.

The comment about the manual was based on having to loosen your clutch hub. "it it tightened for some reason".

The water pump is on the opposite side of the bike from the coolant pump. The two are not related pieces. The clutch hub would not tighten for some reason if it were assembled correctly. A manual would show how to do this.

I would feel badly if someone brought these questions up in front of me and I did not do something to try and correct the situation.

 

[rcannon409]

The clutch hub issue made me question the use of a manual. The clutch hub is a simple piece that's not related to the water pump. Opposites side of the bike. It tightens to 100lb/ft and that's it.

If it's assembled correctly, it can't get tight "for some reason". There will be a reason . If using a manual doesn't eliminate the thought of "for some reason" we are using it incorrectly.