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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so I had a dealer recently inform me that a price of $8999 (gouge fees TBD) on a new 2014 N1K (no bags) was "below cost". Based on various factors I have to seriously doubt the veracity of that claim.

With auto pricing there are several web sites (Edmunds, etc) where one can get accurate dealer invoice numbers excluding complicating factors like hold-back costs, etc.

Is there anything similar for motorcycles?

Based on some educated guessing I wouldn't be surprised if dealer invoice price is not something around 60% of MSRP.
 

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It truly doesn't matter what a dealer lists the bike for, they'll almost always add something on the backend. The $8999 is to get you in the door, that's it. The only price anyone should be interested in is what it costs to get it on the street, in your name. This includes fees, taxes and registration, minus trade for tax purposes. My bike was $7300-something. Woohoo, right? No, OTD was $9500 to park it in my garage with a license plate on it.
This next part isn't directed at you JLG.
I see posts all the time of people saying "Yea, my OTD was $X, plus fees". That's not what OTD means.
Let's try this... Bike K is $8999. Dest & setup is $500, doc fee $50, tag/title $150. Trade in value, $2500. The only thing not taxable is the tag/title (in my state, it has its own tax, called VLT), and the trade value is deducted before tax is calculated at... 8% as an example. So...
8999+500+50-2500=7049x1.08=$7612.92+150=
$7762.92. However, that's still not the true OTD price, because the trade value has to be added back in. The true OTD price in this case is $10,262.92.
The same principle goes for any down payment, it may make the bottom line better, especially when financing, it still needs to be added back in for a true Out The Door price. And it's taxable too. An equivalent down instead of the trade raises the OTD by $200 in this example. And you have to consider if you have the time or the money to sell it yourself to offset that cost. If you only get $200 more if you sell it yourself, you're a masochist. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
"...$7300-something. Woohoo, right? No, OTD was $9500."

All true, of course, though not really my question. :) And yes, to me, OTD means the total - not the total + extra. I sometimes phrase it OTD (excluding taxes) bc taxes are deferred if you are buying out of state and obviously the tax rates vary.


As everyone knows, freight, setup, doc fees are the common gouges. I had a dealer recently quote $1700 for freight/setup! This is borderline bait & switch but it seems to be very common practice in the cycle world. My experience is that freight/setup should be more in the $500 range. I do know of one dealership that openly advertises that they DO NOT add extra fees; their price quotes are quite good as well - they move a lot of units. Unfortunately, they sell Hondas. :)

The above have gone away substantially in the auto sales, but this is BS is alive and well for cycle sales.

Back to the original question: if a new 2013 can be sold for $7K (assuming the fees are not ridiculous) I find it unlikely that $9K is "below cost" for a new 2014; the math just doesn't add up.
 

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The dealer I bought mine from charges no fees(less taxes), he lists everything as otd and has great prices. He strictly works on volume. Told me he was #6 dealer for Kawasaki in the U.S. And he's in WV, that's doing something.
 
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It really is below cost. You'd be surprised how little mark up there is in a bike. We used to try to make 500.00 on the "motorcycle" itself. You could usually make 500-700 on the cycle itself if you sold at list price. Your Ninja started out at 10,999 or so, and that would have allowed soemwhere around 700.00 profit. Sometimes a point, or two in interest fees if you financed.

The profit was when you added in freight, dealer prep, doc fee and hoped you were dumb enough to buy an extended warranty. Service agreement. Helmets, jackets, gloves, it all added up.

They sell below cost when the factory offers rebates as they are doing now. So, yes it is below cost, sort of, kind of....For sure based on the guys who bought 14's at 10,999 back in 14.
 

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The point is, if added fees are reasonable, thats a bargain. If you get the bike otd for 10,000-10,500....Thats all in, everything .

Lets say you go back in march and offer that for a 2016. They wont even sit down to discuss an offer that low on a 16.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes, kind of a no-brainer that you cannot get a 2016 for the same price as a bike with an instant 2 years of depreciation the second it rolls of the dealer's lot. You are doing the dealer as much of a favor as they are you - after all, there could be a reason the bike has been sitting around for two years (niche market).
 

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In ways, but a dealer needs bikes sitting on the floor. It was always good for business to have a few older, new bikes on the floor marked down. Even if you did not sell them , it was almost like a prop. Especially when a 14, 15 and 16 had so little difference between them.

Discounts showed you were ready to work with people and these non current machines were perfect to drop people down to.

Half the people walking through the door could not buy a lawnmower on credit. Often times you could still get them into the older bikes. Creative paperwork if you want to call it that.

There were certain customers you just showed the door to. It was going to take 2-3 hours all total to help them and deal with finance, paperwork etc. When I got someone fighting for that last 25.00, I'd usually blow up the deal and wait for a payment shopper.

On a deal where I was selling a ninja 1000 who's original price was 11,999...... lets say its marked down to what my local dealer has. They have a 2014, blue, marked down to 8699.00. Brand new. Freight and set up 500.00. Tax and license is what is it and I think thats 6% locally.

On that deal if someone asked for anything, Id show them the door. Theres not enough money left in that deal to spend time working on.

Heres a decent deal:

Motorcycles, Road Bikes New Classifieds for Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming | ksl.com

That shop buys a lot of bikes from dealers who go out of business. On a deal like this, cost is ????
 

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Just traded my 2012 in for a brand new 2014.... So here's the deal... the deal where the dealer makes some money and I am happy.

Base price on the new 2014 with KQR bags $9,000
Freight/handling/setup 500
Sales tax 808
License fee 149
OTD Price $10,457

Keep in mind this is in California... tax and license are probably higher than the rest of the universe. Also, you may be able to get a cheaper base price depending on where you live.

They gave me $4,500 for my 2012 which had 48,300 miles on it, but a Racetech Suspension, OEM heated grips, OEM gel seat, Puig racing screen, OEM engine and axle sliders. They did all the maintenance on the bike so they knew it was solid.

Great time to get a steal on those '14s with the '16s out and the new Versys 1000 taking some buyers. In addition, the new Suzuki GSX S1000 F is out which is seen as a direct competitor to the N1k and has an MSRP of 1k less. Dealers are anxious to move the '14s before the holiday slow-down as well.

So hey this is my third Ninja 1000... can you tell I love this bike?
 

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With the upgrades you already had done, why get a new one? Is 50k your standard point of trade up? Where you looking to get the 14 improvments? At what point did you trade your first one? Just curious after 50k, how was the bike doing? I don't put more than 5k on a bike a year, so I plan to keep mine for a while, just curious on your thoughts.
 
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Mine too. I always negotiate for the out the door price. I never buy from a dealer with freight or setup fees. I would rather travel 100 miles to get a good deal.
 

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If you negotiate OTD, it doesn't matter what those fees are. Are you saying you would pay $8,000, no setup or freight, plus TTL, but wouldn't pay $1, $4,000 setup, $3,999 freight, plus TTL? Yes, an extreme example, but I don't follow the logic.
 

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With the upgrades you already had done, why get a new one? Is 50k your standard point of trade up? Where you looking to get the 14 improvments? At what point did you trade your first one? Just curious after 50k, how was the bike doing? I don't put more than 5k on a bike a year, so I plan to keep mine for a while, just curious on your thoughts.
The suspension was the major upgrade on my 12 and it was due for a fork oil change. I was also due for another valve clearance service as well as sprocket and chain changeout so that would have been an expensive service at 50k. It's not really my standard point of trade up, but I was pretty sure the GM of the dealership would be wanting to move that 14. The 12 was running fantastically.... but I am meticulous about service. Plenty more miles in that bike and the dealer knew it because they did all the service.

I really was wanting the hard bags on the 14 more than anything else... I was getting tired of the strap on soft bags when touring. ABS was a motivator as well. Traction control not so much but who knows, it may come in handy. I don't mind a little slidin' around. :)

My first N1k was a 2012 as well... bought in fall of 2011, dropped it at 15k summer of 2012. It was very difficult to get parts to fix it because the bike was pretty new and many of the parts were back ordered for months... so I just traded it in "as is" for a new 2012. :)
 

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Just traded my 2012 in for a brand new 2014.... So here's the deal... the deal where the dealer makes some money and I am happy.

Base price on the new 2014 with KQR bags $9,000
Freight/handling/setup 500
Sales tax 808
License fee 149
OTD Price $10,457

Keep in mind this is in California...
where in the world did you score that kind of deal in california? I would buy a n1k right now for that price, especially with bags!
 

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where in the world did you score that kind of deal in california? I would buy a n1k right now for that price, especially with bags!
Escondido Cycle Center.... :) If you're serious, my suggestion is to look for '14s at the high volume dealers. They are ready to move these bikes off the floor before the new year. To be fair, I have a history with this dealer... I am a long time customer, they do all my service and they know I will buy all my accessories from them. I didn't get this good a deal on the first two N1ks I bought from them.
 

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I bought my '14 in the fall of '14, with bags for $10,400. I made it clear that the only additional fees I would pay were tax, tag, and title. The dealer has no control over tax, tag, and title, it's the same everywhere (in your locale) so it's non negotiable. I have not seen a better deal than $8999, with bags. I wouldn't worry whether you paid "cost," the dealer's gotta eat too.
 
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