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Discussion Starter #1
Caution, long winded rant.

I'm looking for some insight and suggestions regarding the poor fueling and bad manners of my 2011 Ninja 1000. I bought this bike late this past Summer and I've put about 4,000 miles on it. So far, I've only added creature comforts like; seat, windscreen, gear indictor, bar end mirrors, urban brawlers, etc. After I got the riding position sorted out, it's pretty nice to sit on for long days. However, I just cant get comfortable with the handling and lack of throttle control. It's either off or on. No subtle throttle inputs can be made from my end. It's so harsh that it disrupts the chassis. I can't enter or exit a turn with any confidence. I finished installing a Healtech gear indictor last night and took it for a spin. I was entering the Interstate on a 180 degree entrance ramp and I even approached that like I was riding a bull at the rodeo. Because of my Ninja frustrations I've been riding my other bike, a DRZ Supermoto. That little bike runs circles around the Ninja. I know they're not comparable bikes but the fueling (or lack there of) on the DRZ is predictable whereas the Ninja is only predictably harsh. The Ninja's handling isn't great either. The forks seem twist or are just terribly under sprung? It reaches a lean angle then just falls in harshly. I am running the 55 rear tire so it's not that. I'm pretty fat so I know this bike and almost every bike I consider will likely need suspension work. I'm confident I can get it to handle better, if I drop some serious coins.

Option 1: I don't have deep pockets to continue spending $ on the bike so the FCE (Fuel Cutoff Eliminator) is attractive. Brocks sells sells this item for $130 and it supposedly clears up most of the issues with the jerky throttle. However, forum postings suggest this is a bit of a mysterious install and it required a great deal of disassembly? Seems like you would just need to remove the seats and prop up the tank. Has anyone done this and can offer insight. One thing the DRZ has taught me is that I don't need anymore horsepower. If a bike handles great you can hang.

Option 2: Full Ivans mod. This will cost me $700+ for reflash, air filter, AIS block-off plates and a Power Commander. Apparently, the first gen of my bike requires both the reflash and a Power Commander to get the fueling dialed? The ECU on my bike is less sophisticated than the later models. This apparently solves all the fueling issues and provides more power (which I really don't need). Is this a involved install? Is it more of a pain that the FCE mod?

I really want this bike to work for me. I lusted over Ninja 1000's for months before buying one. I figured it would be the perfect bike for blasting through the mountains and doing long weekend rides. It seems to offer great potential but is it worth all the extra expense?
 

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If you don't mind spending the extra coin, the reflash from Ivan is transformational, especially if you do the full upgrade with exhaust.

Check out the details at his website. His reflash includes a recurve of the ignition timing and elimination of the fuel cut, plus a few other things. Engine braking will also be slightly reduced. The fuel map he provides is tuned to match the changes in the ECU.

As far as the install, it is really pretty simple. If I can do it anyone can. The block off plate on the left side of the bike it a little tricky to get to, and the injector connections require a bit of patience as you really have to squeeze down on them to get them to release. Otherwise it is pretty much plug and play. You will need to connect a laptop to the PC and make a few small adjustments and run a few checks after all is installed, but Ivan provides excellent instructions with his products.

I was shocked at how much better the fueling was after install and since I did the full package with exhaust I could feel the difference in power right away. It was worth every penny in my opinion!!! Feels like an iron fist in a velvet glove.

As for the suspension......I don't know how much you have worked with adjusting the preload and damping. I am 188 pounds in shorts and a tee shirt and was able to find a setting that I am happy with. But I will agree the suspension is a little lacking. However I was able to find a setting that allows me to attack twisty roads pretty aggressively without it beating me up when touring. It is something you will just have to experiment with.

After installing Ivans performance package this is by far my favorite among all the motorcycles I have owned. It does everything well but with a sporting intent.
 

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You are just imagining your throttle issues. Let me refer you to posts by other forum members that will confirm it is just a figment of your imagination. :D

Now seriously, I felt your pain. It destroyed my enjoyment of the bike. I was ready to sell it.

It looks like it might be worth trying option 1. If it doesn't work well enough for you the punt and sell the bike.

On a 2011, unless I got it almost for free, I don't think I'd want to drop $700 into it. The bike isn't worth that much and I'd never get it back out. Maybe wouldn't matter if I kept it for 5 years but I know I won't. I went with stuff I can easily take off and sell if I sold the bike for the most part. It sucks that you have to go through all that extra crap on the earlier models.

Hey, I have a nice 2014 already setup that I'll make you a great deal on? ;) No really.
 

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Most of the issue lies with the rider not the bike. Maybe you should go back to a moped or a trike so you do not experience all these "defects" that motorcycles have lmao. ;)

You are just imagining your throttle issues. Let me refer you to posts by other forum members that will confirm it is just a figment of your imagination. :D

Now seriously, I felt your pain. It destroyed my enjoyment of the bike. I was ready to sell it.

It looks like it might be worth trying option 1. If it doesn't work well enough for you the punt and sell the bike.

On a 2011, unless I got it almost for free, I don't think I'd want to drop $700 into it. The bike isn't worth that much and I'd never get it back out. Maybe wouldn't matter if I kept it for 5 years but I know I won't. I went with stuff I can easily take off and sell if I sold the bike for the most part. It sucks that you have to go through all that extra crap on the earlier models.

Hey, I have a nice 2014 already setup that I'll make you a great deal on? ;) No really.
 

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Ninjalust, your observations are pretty spot on for both handling and fueling. I was getting pretty frustrated with the light-switch throttle response and Ivan's does really fix it. I have a 2014, so it was only $350 for me; bike is otherwise stock.

I have a similar feel about the handling. When I first got the bike, I had a few small "oops" moments where it felt like the bike just "fell over" while being in a lean. The handling on my Daytona is a lot sharper and more predictable. That said, I did get used to it and with the better fueling and reduced engine braking, you can now control the stability in the turns a lot better than before. I have yet to do good canyon run after Ivan's but just by taking fwy onramps, I already notice a solid improvement. My exit speed on the same onramp I take every day is about the same as on my Daytona, so once you get used to the different dynamic, the bike is capable.
 

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Most of the issue lies with the rider not the bike. Maybe you should go back to a moped or a trike so you do not experience all these "defects" that motorcycles have lmao. ;)
I love your general, all encompassing statement. I totally disagree with it of course. Maybe if I ran my bike wide open all the time it won't be an issue. Not many places you can run a N1K WFO all the time without going to jail or crashing. We all know there is a lot more to it than just rider but believe what you want in your fantasy land.

Maybe you understand the difference between analog and binary. Or how about sampling rate? Maybe the amount of amount of change you can discern is measured in meters instead of millimeters. Or maybe you got the 1 Ninja out of thousands that doesn't exhibit this issue. Good for you!

In case you don't know this, poor throttle quality can upset the balance of pretty much any vehicle. For the record, my moped does have better throttle quality than did my N1K before the reflash. But hey, a well setup carb is often preferable to glitchy fuel injection. A few jet swaps and I am in business. Then again I spent a lot of time tuning bikes long before the advent of wideband 02 sensors and fuel injection.

I think it is time to do a poll and see how many people have this issue.
 

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NL - where you are you located?

Maybe you can find power commanders used. That might reduce the overhead a bit. It might take some doing but you might be able to source some of the parts used instead of new.

It looks like you put enough miles to know what you like or don't like about it. Just have to decide if you want to dump even more in it. Since you've done so much already, maybe it is worth it if you like most of the other things about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for the insight folks. I really want to love the bike. I haven't had one yet that was sorted out perfectly. The Ninja is no different. Just gotta decide if it's worth the coins to get it perfect or try something else? I really appreciate all your responses with the exception of mrphotoman who is obviously a sad little troll hiding behind his computer monitor.
 

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I seen a thread where one guy with a pre 2014 just got the reflash and said it ran great, he said if you was stock or just had slip ons you didnt need the fuel controller, also thought i seen on ivans site you didnt need the block off plates no more, so if this is so you could just get the reflash for what a controller cost. But this is what i read i cant verify one way or the other. But a call to ivan might help you out
 

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700.00 is three payments on something new, and very, very little money of it allows you to keep and enjoy the bike for several more years.

What motophotoman says is really not wrong. You can deal with the fueling, as is, but the price is about 700.00 to make it right.

The fce is nice, but wont fix the low end, entirely. It requires extra work to install since it ties into the ecu, which is in the back of the bike, and also has a wire tying in under the tank, by the motor. Ivans description saying "obsolete" is accurate.

Do you need the fuel controller with gen 1? Of course not.....in fact, go back to Motophotomans answer if you are trying to save money as his solution is best, for that aspect.

The plates add no functional difference, so those can be skipped, but get the pcv and do it right.
 

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Yea, I'd give Ivan a quick call. He should be able to give you the right info.

It really is a dramatic improvement. In fact, it is not an improvement, the jerkiness is gone altogether!
 

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I seen a thread where one guy with a pre 2014 just got the reflash and said it ran great, he said if you was stock or just had slip ons you didnt need the fuel controller, also thought i seen on ivans site you didnt need the block off plates no more, so if this is so you could just get the reflash for what a controller cost. But this is what i read i cant verify one way or the other. But a call to ivan might help you out
I have the 2011 model, and rode last year only with Ivans ECU. (before I had the FCE).

The ECU fixes a lot more throttle probs then the FCE.

You don't need the full package, just the ECU will do.

It's only this winter I'm installing all the other Ivan Goodies.

For the FCE, you'll need to remove the fairings, seat, gas tank (empty it first), airbox, and then you can reach it.
For the ECU ... you just plug it in.

I highly advise the ECU above the FCE.
 
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Glad you chimed in experience matters, that was your post i read, with just the flash did they remove the low gear speed limiters and could you tell a difference, that i might be interested in flash only.Im not looking for ever last hp i got plenty but a few perks would be nice
 

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Glad you chimed in experience matters, that was your post i read, with just the flash did they remove the low gear speed limiters and could you tell a difference, that i might be interested in flash only.Im not looking for ever last hp i got plenty but a few perks would be nice
I noticed most of what Ivan describes on his website.
Ivan's Performance Products

4. re-program sub-throttles = no idea
8. Re-curve of ignition timing = no idea.

More power also down low, smoother + all of the FCE but better.
 

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Based on the map Ivan sends you to load into the power commander, theres no way fueling will be very good without one. There are spots where the power commander map is calling for 18-20 extra power commander numbers of fuel...

Based on that, Experience Matters said is bike is much improved. Hes not joking, and hes not wrong. I've tried my Ivans reflash with a "0" map, and its ok.

Its better, despite having a fuel map so far off from what it needs? That has to be an indication of how goofed the stock set up is, right?
 

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Based on the map Ivan sends you to load into the power commander, theres no way fueling will be very good without one. There are spots where the power commander map is calling for 18-20 extra power commander numbers of fuel...

Based on that, Experience Matters said is bike is much improved. Hes not joking, and hes not wrong. I've tried my Ivans reflash with a "0" map, and its ok.

Its better, despite having a fuel map so far off from what it needs? That has to be an indication of how goofed the stock set up is, right?
Do you think that in my case, the fuel with only slipons, would've been that far off ?
I thought new fuel maps where only necessary if you remove the cat or mess with the air intake.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I have the 2011 model, and rode last year only with Ivans ECU. (before I had the FCE).

The ECU fixes a lot more throttle probs then the FCE.

You don't need the full package, just the ECU will do.

It's only this winter I'm installing all the other Ivan Goodies.

For the FCE, you'll need to remove the fairings, seat, gas tank (empty it first), airbox, and then you can reach it.
For the ECU ... you just plug it in.

I highly advise the ECU above the FCE.
I really like the sound of this. I'll pull my ECU over the weekend and send it right away, if it will work on my bike with no negative side effects. I'm just looking for a light throttle action. The power the bike has is more than enough for the kind of riding I do. I ride in the TN/NC mountains most weekends and big horsepower is only needed on the occasional straight sections of the road. Predictable and light throttle inputs would do a lot more for my overall performance than adding any more power.

I'm capable of removing fairings and such but I never trust myself to do any complex wiring. For some reason, I've never liked the idea of a Power Commander. If I could skip this step and still get good results that would be great. If the ECU reflash shows promise and better drivability I'd be inclined to add some of the other performance add-ons at a later date.

Thanks a ton, Experience_Matters
 

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Discussion Starter #19
What motophotoman says is really not wrong. You can deal with the fueling, as is, but the price is about 700.00 to make it right.

Do you need the fuel controller with gen 1? Of course not.....in fact, go back to Motophotomans answer if you are trying to save money as his solution is best, for that aspect.
I'm not sure that motophotoman provided an answer? I am aware that most of a bikes issues rely with the rider and I can certainly improve. He knows nothing of my skill or ability and I know nothing of his. To suggest that I'm so lame that I need to ride mopeds and tricycles is an insult and not constructive. Sure you can adapt to a bikes shitty qualities but you'd be way better if those issues were sorted.
 

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I really like the sound of this. I'll pull my ECU over the weekend and send it right away, if it will work on my bike with no negative side effects. I'm just looking for a light throttle action. The power the bike has is more than enough for the kind of riding I do. I ride in the TN/NC mountains most weekends and big horsepower is only needed on the occasional straight sections of the road. Predictable and light throttle inputs would do a lot more for my overall performance than adding any more power.

I'm capable of removing fairings and such but I never trust myself to do any complex wiring. For some reason, I've never liked the idea of a Power Commander. If I could skip this step and still get good results that would be great. If the ECU reflash shows promise and better drivability I'd be inclined to add some of the other performance add-ons at a later date.

Thanks a ton, Experience_Matters
A PCV install is not complex.
It is just unplugging & pluggin wires.
For the FCE you'll have to cut wires & attach Japanese connectors.
For the PCV you don't even need to remove the airbox or gas tank.
 
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