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A Black 2019 N1k
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Humor me for a minute. Lets assume, for want of an argument, that it is the tyre size causing the ECU to throw an error code, so let's eliminate the tyre.

Drive around to all the local motorcycle shops and find an old used 190x50 tyre in their heap of replaced tyres. Brand and condition doesn't matter, as long as it will hold air. Pay the shop to remove the 190x55 and fit the old 190x50, reset the error code, and see what happens.

Cheaper than spending $1500 on new throttle bodies which, if it is the tyre size, won't fix the error code.
 

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Are there others running a 190/55 on a 17+ that are throwing a 62 code or having Power and TC disabled?
Im on a 18+ with Pirelli Angel GT 190/55 since the last 6 months, no issues.
 

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You guys that have the 190/55, have you activated traction control or abs? I dont have it, on my 12. If I did, I can think of one time when I would have activated Tc. It would have been on a painted line. I dont believe I would have activated the abs. The concours does have abs. I activated the front, one time. The rear only when I was trying to.

I wish the shop had more reasonable wait times.

I've never checked this, but when we say 190/55, or 190/50, I know that's a tire size spec, but how exact are tires built to that standard? Could some be taller, shorter, or fatter than the exact spec..?
 

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Discussion Starter #45
I activated TC a lot on the 190/50 during hard pulls in first getting to know the bike, I have not noticed TC kicking in on on the 190/55 but I am not paying much attention to the dash except for the tack now.
 

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As far as wire resistance, yes....that's a problem. I cant answer that, but how does the bike run well if there is a real issue there?

I also have to call tech support, often, on machines I've never seen or worked on before. More often than not, they will ask me to drag out a meter. It's always the same..."What's your voltage here, they ask?" " 24.9, I'll say". Ok, good....turn that up to 25 even...what's your resistance?" I'll usually ask, " What should it be?" " Well, that depends..how warm is it? How old is it?" Unless the part tests open, I dont recall ever having to replace a component just because of a low or high ohm reading. They have been replaced when the ohm reading was off, AND something else I could verify before the part was replaced. That other thing might be cost...its too cheap to worry about, or time.....its been in there for 10 yrs, so why not replace it. But never just because the reading was off.

For this one, I would want to hear something like, " The resistance is off, AND the bike wont run above 3000 rpm.
 

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2017 Yamaha FZ-10 2017 Suzuki M109R
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As far as wire resistance, yes....that's a problem. I cant answer that, but how does the bike run well if there is a real issue there?

I also have to call tech support, often, on machines I've never seen or worked on before. More often than not, they will ask me to drag out a meter. It's always the same..."What's your voltage here, they ask?" " 24.9, I'll say". Ok, good....turn that up to 25 even...what's your resistance?" I'll usually ask, " What should it be?" " Well, that depends..how warm is it? How old is it?" Unless the part tests open, I dont recall ever having to replace a component just because of a low or high ohm reading. They have been replaced when the ohm reading was off, AND something else I could verify before the part was replaced. That other thing might be cost...its too cheap to worry about, or time.....its been in there for 10 yrs, so why not replace it. But never just because the reading was off.

My point is that the physical secondary throttle plate actuator does not care about the amount of resistance in the circuit, since it is not an open, the secondary throttle plates still function normally because they still receive power. The ECU is what cares about the resistance range, therefore returning a code and disabling TCS because the resistance it sees is out of spec.

You need to look at it as two separate entities. 1. what does the actuator need in order to function normally? 2. what is the ECU expecting to see in that circuit.

1. The circuit is not broken or open, so power is still reaching the actuator which allows it to function normally.
2. The ECU is expecting to see a resistance within spec, since it is no longer in spec, the ECU is throwing the code.
3. I suspect the ECU needs to see that resistance value when applying TCS, so this is why you get the error code and TCS is disabled.
 

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That makes sense. I appreciate that clarification. You worded it very well.

My 2012 manual shows the same electrical specs on my throttle bodies as they do for the new bike. The actuator says it's supposed to be around 5.2-7.8.

The 2016 throttle bodies show 6.7 ohm on 1-2 and 6.5 on 3-4.
 

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2017 Yamaha FZ-10 2017 Suzuki M109R
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I would suspect that for the TCS to work, the ECU would need to be able to vary the position of the STP's to a fairly fine degree. In order for that to happen, it would need to know that the resistance value is within a certain spec in order to guarantee the the proper voltage is applied to the actuator.

Since TCS is a possible life-saving system, I can see why they would have the ECU throw a code if the resistance is out of spec, even though the STP's still function.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
My point is that the physical secondary throttle plate actuator does not care about the amount of resistance in the circuit, since it is not an open, the secondary throttle plates still function normally because they still receive power. The ECU is what cares about the resistance range, therefore returning a code and disabling TCS because the resistance it sees is out of spec.

You need to look at it as two separate entities. 1. what does the actuator need in order to function normally? 2. what is the ECU expecting to see in that circuit.

1. The circuit is not broken or open, so power is still reaching the actuator which allows it to function normally.
2. The ECU is expecting to see a resistance within spec, since it is no longer in spec, the ECU is throwing the code.
3. I suspect the ECU needs to see that resistance value when applying TCS, so this is why you get the error code and TCS is disabled.

I agree with this.

And I don't have bike experience much less bike FI, I have experience with GM TBI and LS but not to the point of programming either although I have access to HP Tuner and have adjusted some transmission settings and corrected tire size on my 2500HD and have not bricked an ECM yet :D

However, the TBI experience was adapting the systems to non-GM vehicles and specifically an AMC 258 in my CJ and a 360 V8 in my Cherokee. Bill Hamilton of Binder Planet who did the programming of the chips was ruthless as far as people verifying voltage and resistance pre-checks and GROUNDS on all sensors and the ECM before he offered input.

So I can understand the ECU going into limp mode (disabling power and traction control adjustment) when getting incorrect input.

The question of course, what is causing the bad input: mechanical components, sensors, wiring, connectors, ECU or possibly tire size.

Just my opinion, if it was tire size I would expect this to have happened from the start and to other riders.
 

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It's hard to draw any sort of conclusion with this happening to so few people. Plus, it's hard to know just how this started, and when. Theres one on the uk z1000sx forum, you and trymeltr..that's about it. All three had 190/55's, but the other two had gearing changes , and full exhaust. The full exhaust might be an issue as the bike makes more power at any rpm above 3000, and it weighs less. The gearing change makes sense, too

You know, it is a bad throttle body, that's probably no big deal. I dont think this throttle body ever changed between 2011 and 2019. The specs on the electrical components are the same. Even if Kawasaki did not honor their warranty, im sure they will, these throttle bodies are all over ebay for 75.00.
 

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2017 Yamaha FZ-10 2017 Suzuki M109R
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I agree with this.

And I don't have bike experience much less bike FI, I have experience with GM TBI and LS but not to the point of programming either although I have access to HP Tuner and have adjusted some transmission settings and corrected tire size on my 2500HD and have not bricked an ECM yet :D

However, the TBI experience was adapting the systems to non-GM vehicles and specifically an AMC 258 in my CJ and a 360 V8 in my Cherokee. Bill Hamilton of Binder Planet who did the programming of the chips was ruthless as far as people verifying voltage and resistance pre-checks and GROUNDS on all sensors and the ECM before he offered input.

So I can understand the ECU going into limp mode (disabling power and traction control adjustment) when getting incorrect input.

The question of course, what is causing the bad input: mechanical components, sensors, wiring, connectors, ECU or possibly tire size.

Just my opinion, if it was tire size I would expect this to have happened from the start and to other riders.

The bike wasn't being ridden when the resistance tests were done, so the low ohm reading could not have been due to the tire size. At this point, I think it's a bad component in the circuit, but what caused it is still the question. The more I think about it, I really don't see how the difference in rear wheel speed due to the tire size change could damage a component like this. I am leaning more toward a faulty component from the beginning and has probably been dropping in resistance the whole time and just now dropped outside the range limit for the ECU.
 

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If you want to try a different set of throttle bodies, this set I have is nice. I dont really want to sell them, but you are welcome to borrow them for a test. I bought them, on ebay, for 35.00. They are 100% complete and clean. Injector's in place, ready to drop in.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
The bike wasn't being ridden when the resistance tests were done, so the low ohm reading could not have been due to the tire size. At this point, I think it's a bad component in the circuit, but what caused it is still the question. The more I think about it, I really don't see how the difference in rear wheel speed due to the tire size change could damage a component like this. I am leaning more toward a faulty component from the beginning and has probably been dropping in resistance the whole time and just now dropped outside the range limit for the ECU.

We are on the same page with this, neither voltage or resistance readings should be a factor when not moving.
 

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As I was checking to see if there were any codes this morning I thought just that: how would it throw anything that was motion dependent? So in short I noted nothing unusual LSX.
I then rode around changing the TC from 1, 2 and 3 and noticed no strange intervention. I think Murph's suggestion isn't a bad one, just to determine if it is the tire size, but I'm not thinking it is. At least not entirely.
 

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Honest to god, I'm not joking about this. Didnt one of you guys have a bike parking spot where you had to roll your bike backwards to get it out of the area? We might have had a conversation about this?

I remember reading about someone with a zx10 who had ecu errors after he rolled his bike backwards with the engine running. He had a 20-30 ft distance to cover. It happened 2 or 3 times and he went to his dealer to re-set the code.

The big question...when you go to the dealer, do you mention the tire? Or, is it better to say something like, Tire? Oh yea, the black things....or, I mean, the colored things....no, no, not like that....you mean the rubber things? "I dont know,...my wife insists on buying all the tires." I think I might go with option 2 and see if they find it.
 

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I love how this generation of bike, the 17-19 is here and gone and theres pretty much zero info on how it works, how it interacts with the bike, what the tire rules are..nothing. Even the troubleshooting section, for the throttle bodies, is identical to what my 2012 has.

I could see the actuator being the issue. The resistance figure is odd. If the actuator was only for TC, then sure, it's bad. But those blades move all the time. It's part of how they restrict low end power, as well as top end power. I feel like you would have an issue there if you truly had a bad part.

I havent seen any on ebay USA, specifically for the 17-19, but the uk ebay has several sets. If yours really are bad, it might not hurt to have a back up set. Especially when an entire, used set costs about what 1 new injector goes for.
 

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I almost always ride with the TC on 1 and Power on F. In that mode, I have had TC kick just a couple of times and that also when you do a hard launch. 190/55 Pirelli Angel GT, MY18 bike.
 
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