[LSX_Cherokee]

I had my first issue with my 2017, all stock with the exception of a 190/55 and this evening I jumped on to head home and once I got on the highway, up to 3rd or 4th it seemed to act up, almost like it lost power then came back and then the TC and CEL's lit up. The TC flashed the entire ride home but it seemed to run fine but a little hot for 73F ambient, one mark below max.

I found one thread with what may be the same issue, any others experience?

 

[Murphyau]

Is this the error you are getting ??

Also, how many miles have you had the 190x55 fitted ??

 

[Johnmark101]

Start with checking your wheel speed sensors. Make sure neither one has any damage, debris or has come loose.

 

[rcannon409]

Was your traction control set to a lower setting? I know people have used the 190/55 without issue, but the manual does warn against changing tire sizes.

I wonder if you might have hit some painted line and activated the Tc? When that happened, the system might have noticed the tire change and threw up a warning light?

The 17 service manual has a huge section about how to troubleshoot. I didnt have any problems finding a free one to download. Its probably not legal, but I've always been fascinated with prisons.

 

[LSX_Cherokee]

Is this the error you are getting ??

View attachment 29275

Also, how many miles have you had the 190x55 fitted ??

The check engine light is on constant and the power mode F/L is flashing and the KTRC is off.

About 1,500 miles on the 190/55.

 

[LSX_Cherokee]

Start with checking your wheel speed sensors. Make sure neither one has any damage, debris or has come loose.

Yes, I have checked both sensors for damage and both were tight, I have not traced the wires.

 

[LSX_Cherokee]

Was your traction control set to a lower setting? I know people have used the 190/55 without issue, but the manual does warn against changing tire sizes.

I wonder if you might have hit some painted line and activated the Tc? When that happened, the system might have noticed the tire change and threw up a warning light?

The 17 service manual has a huge section about how to troubleshoot. I didnt have any problems finding a free one to download. Its probably not legal, but I've always been fascinated with prisons.

It was in automatic mode, F/1

I had been on a paved but wet county road with some muddy areas from agriculture runoff, the tires may have had some mud on them.

The tire may have slipped a little but I was not thinking about slipping since there have been no issues, I was paying more attention to crossing a major divided highway and getting up to speed. I was not however, accelerating hard by any means.

I have the 2017 manual, the engine warning light A is lit, the Power C and KTRC D are flashing but the electrical warning indicator B is not lit.

 

[kenors]

Something else to note: The error does NOT reset until after 3 (three!) shutdowns and startups. See below:

 

[Murphyau]

It would seem that it is more likely a DFI problem than a TC problem. Do you have the error code ??

 

[LSX_Cherokee]

Not yet, the local shop is booked until Saturday to run the codes.

 

[Murphyau]

You can get the error code yourself from the instruction I "cut & pasted" out of the Service Manual.

 

[LSX_Cherokee]

I will try that this evening, I am still on a conference call for my office.

 

[LSX_Cherokee]

Code 62, P2100. Subthrottle valve actuator malfunction.

 

[rcannon409]

I love Kenors idea...reboot it. That fixes most everything.

Were you here when Tyrmeltr was posting? He had a 2017-2019 bike that had been reflashed. He also had the 190/55 tire. Full exhaust, too. I might be wrong, but he may have also played with gearing?

Anyway, he had the same error. He chose to ignore it. He took his bike to the shop and they told him his throttle bodies were bad and wanted 1500 to replace them. I still think that's bs. He didnt do it. He covered the light with tape. For that cost, I dont blame him, but we never heard a solution.

Just thinking outloud with no real information..This is 100% bs with me talking out of my ***....but, suppose you are riding along. Minding your own business. All at once you hit that paint line, and the rear tire slips.

At that point, Tc kicks in to save your life. I suspect the tc program controls the secondary throttle plates. It really cant control the primary plates as that's cable controled... prior to 2020. This Tc tells them to close a certain amount so the tire can regain traction. Only when it does this, it doesnt get the reaction it thought it should get because the rear tire is too large. The system has no idea this tire is changed, so it blames the only thing it knows...the throttle position sensor.

This idea fit tyrmeltrs bike because he had a full akra exhaust. Now this same system is dealing with a hell of a lot more hp, per given rpm, than the stock bike as well as the tire profile being incorrect. It might be crazy, but this system is crazy. It let's you smash the brakes, mid turn, and live to tell. Inputs have to be pretty accurate to allow things like that.

The 2017 cbr1000rr Honda had this same issue with a 190/55 tire. Many bikes, like Aprilia, allow you to program the tire size into the ecu. There has to be a reason for that.

 

[Murphyau]

My Service Manual (2019) has a little more detail.

Code 62, P2100. Sub-throttle valve actuator malfunction, wiring open or short.

The actuator operates open and close of the sub-throttle valve by the pulse signal from the ECU. If the sub-throttle valve actuator fails (the signal is out to the usable range, wiring short or open), the ECU stops the current to the actuator.

As Kenors & RC have mentioned, you can try to clear the error code, but if there is an short/open/failure, the error code will probably come back.

 

[LSX_Cherokee]

The manual reads the same, I just didn't type the entire sentence.

I read the diagnostic section and just became more annoyed, diagnostics appears easy enough. Remove the air box to access the TB, fine, remove the fuel tank to access the air box, damn, OK fine, remove the plastics to remove the tank...fk fk fk

I don't have time for this crap, but eventually the extended warranty will expire and this will teach me something about my bike and and the knowledge helpful before I take it in for repair.

I appreciate the help though.

I hate taking my junk in for repair, warranty or not, I don't trust people and now I need to find a good Kawasaki shop because there is nothing local.

 

[rcannon409]

The problem with a failed secondary throttle sensor is this. This is the position they fail in. I doubt you would be able to go over 25mph with them in this position.Unless you had mods, this just isnt a part that causes problems. I've heard of you and Tyrmeltr...that's it. Maybe you guys just have bad luck, but?..

 

[LSX_Cherokee]

Yep, and I am curious as well since I was running 70 for about 8 miles before dropping down to 40 through town for 3 miles and then back up to 60 for the last 4 miles to the house.

The bike seems to run fine.

Also ran a tire calculator and it appears to be a 2.9% difference in diameter and circumference between the 50 and 55, do you really feel this would screw up the ECM logic?

 

[rcannon409]

If it's under warranty, please take it in. I know that whatever you find out will help people for years to come.

I could believe my tire idea, except at 1500 miles on the tire, its worn. I would expect this to happen on the brand new tire. By now, is it really that much taller than a brand new 190/50? Unless this was the first time you activated the tc?

 

[rcannon409]

Yep, and I am curious as well since I was running 70 for about 8 miles before dropping down to 40 through town for 3 miles and then back up to 60 for the last 4 miles to the house.

The bike seems to run fine.

Also ran a tire calculator and it appears to be a 2.9% difference in diameter and circumference between the 50 and 55, do you really feel this would screw up the ECM logic?

No. Not really, but, the same tire change did screw up the Honda. It's the Bosh system, too. . 2.9 % is nothing, is it? Then again, five years ago if you told me the bike would have been smart enough to deal with me smashing the brakes, mid corner, I would have laughed.

That system has to be so f'ing good that kawasaki could go to court over it, and win. There would have to be a range to account for normal tire wear. Maybe if you are above that, maybe the 2.9% is huge? I'm sorry this is happening, but it is interesting. Especially when the bike runs well.