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"Shutting the throttle, and getting engine breaking isnt something I would be willing to put up with."
There again we differ (assuming you meant 'braking', not 'breaking'). I grew up on twins (still have a Commando) and use engine braking all the time. It's an enjoyable part of riding. Of course it needs judgement and subtlety, which some don't master. It adds to my enjoyment of a spirited ride. I regularly ride in the wet (UK), engine braking is really useful and safe way to control your speed in these conditions. Also have to say, the slipper clutch works well with the quickshifter on downshifts. But in the wet, so far, I prefer to blip and feed the clutch in myself.

Each to their own, but if this is the heart of your issue with 2020+ bikes, I definitely wouldn't call it a defect and I wouldn't be damning BMac and others for this preference. I certainly wouldn't have bought the bike if I had only the brakes all the time. Too dull.
 

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I am not really sure. Although my 2 N1ks were earlier versions(2011,2015) and my zx is 2019 with a full akra its hard to compare. Gun to my head I think my unflashed N1ks had more engine braking.
Thank You for the feedback.
 

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The tire argument is old. What about different RIMS? RC, how much do you think the stock N1K rims weigh? I'm sure a set of aftermarket ones or pulled off another Kawasaki would make the ECU go crazy. Could be fun though, getting this bike lighter. I have a idea of getting aftermarket rims on the zx10 if the price is right. I wonder if the stock zx10 rims fit on the N1K. They weight ~25 lbs total
 

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I dont think our rims are THAT bad. For sure GOOD aftermarket would be less, but not as strong. Most aftermarket, that is. You get what you pay for. If you dont spend a lot, you get universal rims, with adaptors. Once adaptors start getting added, the weight goes up.

The rim weight question vs the ecu is interesting. I THINK you would be ok doing this change, on either bike. Yes, weight might be pounds lighter, but the size is still the same. Probably less chance of an issue than the 190/55 swap. I think the bike would react something like when I removed flywheel weight. If so, it's worth doing.

The zx10 rims should fit, although you might have to change bearings and the center spacers, up front. With he rear, I think you are good to go.

Engine braking is exciting? Probably not as exciting as rear wheel braking, in the wet. Then again, when a 75 Norton is your baseline, it wont take much to get excited over. Ironically, the old bikes is where engine braking made sense. Very little weight , up front, and poor brakes to begin with. The day I thought that using engine braking was a skill I should boast about would be like when my parents were proud of me for using the toilet, by myself. Maybe at 4 years old, not so much as an experienced motorcyclist.

Mart, I enjoy seeing how you cant stand on your own two feet. You cant talk without bringing in innocent people. Who is is, so far? Just Volfy and Bmart? Who's next?

Please dont do that. Neither asked to be dragged into your nonsense.

Someone loves engine braking, but buys the Ninja 1000 with the assist slipper clutch?..? Notice how this clutch manages "back torque", or engine braking? If you feel it, on the 2020, with this clutch......its not good. It's very heavy.
 

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Someone loves engine braking, but buys the Ninja 1000 with the assist slipper clutch?..? Notice how this clutch manages "back torque", or engine braking? If you feel it, on the 2020, with this clutch......its not good. It's very heavy.
What's a clutch? KQS baby!!!! :)
 

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Engine braking is exciting? Probably not as exciting as rear wheel braking, in the wet. Then again, when a 75 Norton is your baseline, it wont take much to get excited over. Ironically, the old bikes is where engine braking made sense. Very little weight , up front, and poor brakes to begin with. The day I thought that using engine braking was a skill I should boast about would be like when my parents were proud of me for using the toilet, by myself. Maybe at 4 years old, not so much as an experienced motorcyclist.

Mart, I enjoy seeing how you cant stand on your own two feet. You cant talk without bringing in innocent people. Who is is, so far? Just Volfy and Bmart? Who's next?

Please dont do that. Neither asked to be dragged into your nonsense.

Someone loves engine braking, but buys the Ninja 1000 with the assist slipper clutch?..? Notice how this clutch manages "back torque", or engine braking? If you feel it, on the 2020, with this clutch......its not good. It's very heavy.
4 years old! Wow, must have been a relief for your parents when you finally got there 🙂.

As for your advice on engine braking, slipper clutches etc., we'll not see eye to eye, but no problem for me. Points have been made and we can all make our own decisions.

The comment that made me LOL was about standing on my own two feet. I was calling you out for your abusive behaviour. I'm not hiding behind anyone, not even my keyboard. Treat different points of view with more respect, especially when you haven't got facts, just opinions.
 

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2021 Kawasaki Ninja 1000SX
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Opinions vary for sure, but "my" experience with my 2021 is that "I" feel the on / off throttle when I ride aggressively in turns (I've learn to deal with it).

I have a "full" Akrapovic exhaust and "I" haven't noticed any negative response from the engine or the ECU acting up (still under warranty, I don't care).

The bike rides straight as an arrow in cruise control with no hands on the handle bar (wanted to see if my bike would pull to the right).

When down shifting aggressively with the QS I can feel good engine braking and the bike even blips for me (I know, I try blipping myself and it just wouldn't sync).

If Ivan comes out with a flash I will pay to get it done, because it's what "I" want and not because the bike "needs" it. She runs good and strong as she sits.

To each his own, we make these bikes ours when we mod them to fit our way of riding and what we believe makes them unique to us.
 

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I'm sure tolerances allow for the variance between a new and worn tire, but two things, one; the wear on a 50 actually puts it at a greater distance from a 55, not closer, so a tolerance that would address wear would not be calibrated to go in the opposite direction, and two, the difference between a 50 and a 55 is far greater than a worn 50 vs a new 50, or a new 50 vs a worn 55.

Not sure if it was just psychological or not but when I put my 55 on I did notice the abs intervened in similar instances where it did not with the stock tire. Just seemed a touch more sensitive.
But what if the wear is on the front tire? What the computer does is compare the difference in rotation between the two. The front tire being smaller in diameter has the same effect as the rear tire being bigger in diameter.
 

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are you sure you're not confusing traction control with ABS? sounds like it.
 

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Sorry to ask an actual question - But I am just a little lost for a second - I would love to put a full exhaust system on the 2021 SX I have - Even if i leave the O2 sensor in place somewhere on the system I would need a flash on the ECU as it would run to lean yeah?

Thanks :)
I currently have a Full Delkevic system on my 2021 with no flash. They claim, and they seem to be correct that you do not need a tune to run their system. I asked the head of service at my dealer and he feels that as long as you keep the baffle in, you will be fine. The bike runs and sounds terrific. If this is true however about a tune for the 1000 SX, my ECU will be in the mail to Decatur, IN this winter.
 

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Mart, no matter what, I enjoyed being able to argue with you, and not have it become a massive deal. Thank you. I will ride a 2020, when I can. I live in Utah. It's high desert terrain. Winters are long, cold and filled with snow.. If I told someone I was "going to the motorcycle shop to buy something", the person would assume I'm buying a side-by-side. The only chance I'll have is if the Ducati shop has one as a used bike.

I would like to try one to feel the suspension. I would be more interested in that aspect. The shock and fork have not changed, ever, but they have been re-tuned 3 or 4 times. I would like to see what 2020's version is like.

Jjs, that might be what allows some to get by with this larger tire?

I think you are saying, "What if someone changes only the rear tire. Not the full set." Like someone buys the rear tire when the front is still in good shape, or has life left in it. Based on tire costs, you couldnt blame someone for doing that.

From what Kawasaki said , in the 31 page download, the 2020 ninja 1000 was the first mass production motorcycle to have its abs computer communicate with its ecu. Maybe that's good if you use an incorrect tire? Maybe that's bad. Who knows?
 

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There's a big motorcycle show sponsored by Progressive that'll be here in October. Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, Triumph, KTM, Indian demos. I'm hoping to get to ride the new GSXR 1000 and Hayabusa. As well as the GSXR 750 and Katana. Sadly Yamaha and Kawasaki aren't bringing out the superbikes and superchargers.

Someone send me a Gopro and I can make a shitty motovlog comparing the throttle of the new gen N1K to my flashed N1K.
 

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There's a big motorcycle show sponsored by Progressive that'll be here in October. Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha, Triumph, KTM, Indian demos. I'm hoping to get to ride the new GSXR 1000 and Hayabusa. As well as the GSXR 750 and Katana. Sadly Yamaha and Kawasaki aren't bringing out the superbikes and superchargers.

Someone send me a Gopro and I can make a shitty motovlog comparing the throttle of the new gen N1K to my flashed N1K.
Yamaha and Kawasaki pulled some bikes out of their lineup due to knuckleheads constantly crashing them. When that happens it disrupts the entire schedule and is extremely problematic. I am unsure about Kawasaki but Yamaha does not allow videos during the demo rides.
 

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Bmac, the last time the Kawasaki show was here, that same thing happened. You could ride ANY Kawasaki streetbike as long as it wasnt an h2, zh2, zx14, zx10, zx6, or concours 14. I dont even remember seeing a ninja 1000 although it may have been out on a test ride. Outside of those missing bikes, it was all good.

I understand where they are coming from, but the Ducati dealer isnt like this. No, they wont set up a never ridden Panigale , but they always have something that's similar to what you were looking at, or thinking about buying. Especially true in the BMW line up.
 

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I did ride the N1K and the zx6r at the last one. We had a ride leader, so the top speed was limited. I hit 80 for a few seconds. SUPPOSEDLY the Suzuki ride is much more spirited. I talked to a couple people who said the ride leader for Suzuki was really opening it up.
 

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Bmac, the last time the Kawasaki show was here, that same thing happened. You could ride ANY Kawasaki streetbike as long as it wasnt an h2, zh2, zx14, zx10, zx6, or concours 14. I dont even remember seeing a ninja 1000 although it may have been out on a test ride. Outside of those missing bikes, it was all good.

I understand where they are coming from, but the Ducati dealer isnt like this. No, they wont set up a never ridden Panigale , but they always have something that's similar to what you were looking at, or thinking about buying. Especially true in the BMW line up.
The reality is that the Euro manufacturers typically have a very different clientele. Their demographics skew older, wealthier, and more responsible. For the most part they don't experience crashes or problems. Test rides on Ducati's, BMW's, and even Aprilia's have been no problem for me. My experience has been very different for most dealers of Japanese manufacturers with one personal exception. I bought a lot of bikes from a multi-line dealer and he will let me ride anything I want.
 

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B Mac, that's just how it is here, too. The Euro dealership has a different feel. Just like you describe. I get it, but the euro shop, even here, flat out sells motorcycles. The Japanese shops move the motorcyckes to make way for the 4 wheelers. They dont even care to display the bikes.

Do you guys have a "best" test ride? Where you were able to ride a motorcycle that there was no way in hell you would buy, or could buy?

Mine was @ 1984. I worked at the Yamaha dealership and was friends with the owners family.

He brought in a rd350lc, one year before they were available, in America. That was a fun test ride. It was the best ride I ever had, up until the next year. For their kids birthday, his dad made a trade and brought in a Canadian spec rd500lc. Canada called it an RZ500. Even to this day, I dont think Yamaha ever made a more beautiful bike.

The bike was a v4, two stroke. It was pretty much like 4 dt125 engines , glued together. The stock power output wasnt much, and it wasnt light, but it was beautiful. If I ever get rich, I'll buy one. I
Tire Wheel Land vehicle Vehicle Fuel tank
 

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the only way I ever test rode a japanese bike was either a used one or at a demo day. Never needed a demo day for any euro bile. Rode whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. Ducati allots a certain amount of bikes for demos, which the sell at a discount after x amount of miles (I forget the minimum), and I think BMW might do the same thing.
The Japanese brands never do this, other than what's on the demo trucks for demo days.

Speaking of which Suzuki's having a local demo day Friday. I may take the day off and check it out for sh*ts and giggles. They for sure won't have the new 'Busa but I've never hopped on an S1000F and would like to do so.
 

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Who knows whether it needs a flash. I put a full Akra system on my 2011 Ninja 1000. I put on a PowerCommander. I took it to a shop owned by a good friend of mine who’s certified PC5 “tuner” set up my PC5 on a Dynojet Dyno.

We found out it put out max power without the PC5 even active and the A/F ratios were fine. Everyone just assumes changing the exhaust requires a “tune”. But many engines have the ”band width” to handle the change in back pressure.
^^^THIS.

Lambda (O2 sensor) feedback control monitors and has the ability to keep AFR to what the original factory tune prescribes. That latitude is enough to cover the typical exhaust mods, especially if you go with a moderate length can. The only regime that it'll have tougher time to correct is at very low speeds and low RPM, where low exhaust gas flow velocity makes holding AFR challenging. However, that applies to both stock ECU or any aftermarketeer who tries to dink with the fuel mapping. There is no fighting physics.

As for "fuel cut" or "engine braking", that is something I generally prefer. Especially when riding in a tight group, when I roll off the throttle, the last thing I want is for the ECU to keep feeding fuel and for me to have to engage the brake(s) to fight the fuel feed. The bike should work with the rider; I shouldn't have to fight it. That said, I noticed some bikes do chop fuel a bit too abruptly on throttle roll off, which can be a bit annoying. However, that is usually manageable with good throttle control, which is a primary skill any rider should master.

I remember reading about some car magazine editor getting in a ride with a Lamborghini factory test driver around the company HQ. They flew through narrow Italian roads and township streets at a typical Italian factory test driver pace - with engine brake only - because, as the test driver explained, he find that much more satisfying. :)
 
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the only way I ever test rode a japanese bike was either a used one or at a demo day. Never needed a demo day for any euro bile. Rode whatever I wanted whenever I wanted. Ducati allots a certain amount of bikes for demos, which the sell at a discount after x amount of miles (I forget the minimum), and I think BMW might do the same thing.
The Japanese brands never do this, other than what's on the demo trucks for demo days.

Speaking of which Suzuki's having a local demo day Friday. I may take the day off and check it out for sh*ts and giggles. They for sure won't have the new 'Busa but I've never hopped on an S1000F and would like to do so.
The Euro manufacturers do a much better job of getting demos in the hands of the dealers and their customers. They provide an incentive (with limitations) for dealers to demo bikes. After a certain number of miles they can sell it as a nice discount. A few years ago I took a BMW R1200GS on a 200 mile test ride and the dealer was happy to do it.

I wanted to ride a S1000F as well but never got the chance.

The IMS in PA this past weekend had a couple of major crashes. Harley had a guy that had be helicoptered out and Zero had a fatality.
 
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