Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was talking to a motorcycle engine expert the other day about getting my bike dynoed and he told me that Kawasaki's break-in instructions were all wrong.

He said to run it hard and within 15 minutes to use high load and high RPM to seat the rings.

He said he has been building motorcycle engines for 40 years.

I'm inclined to go by what he said.

Years ago I build a kit plane (RV-6A for the curious) and the new engine called for high RPM and high load for the first 25 hours.

My manual says only up to 4000 RPM for the first 500 miles and then only up to 6000 RPM for the next 500.

This seems so low...

What do you think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,606 Posts
I would say if Kawasaki is giving a warranty I would go by there break in specs. I have never seen issues going by the owners manual.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
601 Posts
Piston rings & bores do need the high RPM to break in. But the camshaft need a slightly longer, gentler break in. Same with the brakes. Not sure about transmissions.

Just follow factory recommendations up to 600 miles. Then let it rev up near redline to 1,000 miles. Just make sure you fully warm up the engine/oil before you let it rev, don't go WOT, try not to load the engine too much. It's not really hard to do on the N1k. Without WOT or even letting it rev passed 6k the bike goes pretty fast already.

Basically don't beat on it like you stole it. I would believe Kawasaki more than an engine builder for 30 years. Was he involved in Kawasaki's racing teams that tore down race engines or bikes used in endurance racing? Did he work with Kawasaki's R&D teams when designing and testing their engines? If not then he's giving his opinions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
873 Posts
This is as controversial topic as you will find. All I can do is show what I've done. Your results may vary.

I also have talked to a few race team engine builders. Two of them were part of the Muzzy 90s team building their Sprint, Enduro and Endurance engines. Those two were the ones that designed and built the initial seven prototype gear drive ZX7R engines with all new Factory Works supporting parts. They stated a similar process mentioned earlier. Get the new engine stable, up to oil pressure and hit it hard and often to seat the rings. Change the oil and filter after the first hour of running, again at 500 miles and again at 1000. Constantly vary engine RPM for the first 1000 miles, and never just cruise during that time.

I have used the above procedure on my last three new engines with no issues. You have to decide for yourself what procedure you will use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,544 Posts
None of this can matter, very much. They sell too many motorcycles to people who have no idea it even needs breaking in. I think there's this feeling that nothing violent is happening, inside the motor , at low revs. I think personal feeling has a lot more to do with this than facts.

There's no way they would ever give us I instructions that ended up costing them money. If there was any significant mileage or rpm figure, this could easily be programmed into the ecu and we would be limited until these limits were removed. BMW does this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,127 Posts
Its called a hard brake-in and there is a fair amount of info on the net regarding this alternate break-in procedure,,. Some of the articles include engine piston and rings verifications samples and pictures,. The whole idea get fairly involved as I recall,,.
I broke in both of my recent two bikes by following this hard brake-in method which included running up RPM as well as a wide range of RPM's both of which exceeded recommendations by a considerable margin,,. I have never had a mechanical problem with either bike,,.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,544 Posts
Years ago, one of the UK magazines had a dyno day. They asked for any and all GSXR 1000 owners to show up. That meant they had a decent sample size of all the years, and all kinds of different mods. I believe this was in 2008, so they had bike years from 2001-2007, and miles driven was all over the place.

They featured a handful of those tests. Most bike made more power, after a few dyno runs. These were bikes with 5-10,000 miles on them, and even those picked up a few hp after being run hard, like you could do on a dyno.

One in particular had been owned by a older, more conservative rider, and it gained power, on every run, despite already having 7000 miles on it. This bike was never going to be "broken in" with this guy riding it. What you could see is these powerful engines never work hard under normal, legal riding conditions. You get to use full power on very few occasions. Even then its for such a limited time
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,606 Posts
I seat the rings by using the engines back pressure, I find the biggest, steepest longest hill I can find and gear down and let her eat without much throttle, my engine builder on my race car taught me that trick using regular dyno oil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
698 Posts
For the owners of 2017+ N1Ks, page through your owners manual to find a specific statement about the ECU storing data which can be accessed later for post-event investigations. I read that as, among other things, a brand new motor developing a problem during hard dyno pulls might get some manufacturer push-back on a warranty claim. Maybe a LOT of push-back.

Your ECU can testify against you, as this FoMoCo troubleshooting flowchart demonstrates:
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,606 Posts
What Rickifumi said, that is a game changer if you care about warranty, especially if you got an extended warranty. I’m sure if they seen pulls on the dyno it’s lights out on the warranty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,544 Posts
That article is pretty much THE article that bets talked about. Notice that the newest bike he mentions is a 2007. It's been around a while.

The only bike I've ever been able to run, hard, was my Concours 14. The night I did this it had about 9000 miles on it. Pre Ivan's flash. One night, due to some unfortunate chain of events, I had to run it at top speed for about 1.5 hours. Friday night. I had dropped my wallet as I changed a flat tire. That was about 80 miles from home. The f-ing thing was laying in the highway. I knew the Mile post it was at. The urgency was because we were flying out on Monday morning. My stupid *** was going nowhere without id....

The fuel use was crazy. Figure 10-15 mpg. The fuel light was on in 50 miles. That felt strange because I had left the gas station only @ 20 minutes earlier. I finally get to the destination and there's my wallet. I was relieved. You could smell the engine . That brand new like smell was present. I let the bike cool down.

At this point, I should have just rode home, and I did. But, I decided it was a good idea to see if i could make the return trip faster. Not sure if I did, I lost track of time, but it was a hell of a lot of fun. Highly recommended if you have a moonlight light and a giant salt flat to cross.

That put two hard extended runs on the bike. I noticed the idle was more smooth, and the engine just felt better than it did before. Shifting was better as well. Without this night, I. know the bike would have never actually broken in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Absolutely! An intact warranty is like money in the bank.
How is Kawasaki going to know if you exceeded their RPM requirements?

This doesn't make sense to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
945 Posts
With regards to piston ring sealing, I think you need to know what's inside your engine before you can say what the best break in method is. IMO, cast iron liners and their rings need the old school, easy break in. Anything with a plated / plasma'd silicone carbide cylinder liners hardly wear the liners at all their entire life and the rings seat fairly early in their life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,127 Posts
The ability to access running data would certainly be a consideration,,. I'm thinking that there is not a coordinated attempt by Kawi or any other manufacturer to try to void otherwise valid warranties by snooping into the private history of how the bike was operated,,. They might make a case for investigating the nature of a failure especially if there were repeat problems with the same machine,,. They would not make many friends if this ever got out!!

I know that car computer systems have had reviewable data for more then a decade now and it can be reviewed in the event of an accident, speed, brake application, point of contact, impact speed, all kinds of history,,!! What I have heard is that insurers will be aware of this information but can not use it against you in a settlement or in court as its legally considered private information,,. They may be aware of the details but cannot say they are? Once you have settled the claim for the automobile its a different story as it is now there property to do with as they wish,,!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Discussion Starter #17

·
Registered
Joined
·
560 Posts
Ari Henning, former journalist at Motorcyclist magazine, took two new engines ( single cylinder Honda's) and subjected them to different break in methods. Here is the video and results.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,606 Posts
That’s what I would do is redline it in every gear that will hone your parts.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top