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Would the difference be as drastic as adding a 190/55 rear to the older models?

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Would the difference be as drastic as adding a 190/55 rear to the older models?

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What is the significant difference? Effort to get it leaned or effort to keep it at lean, or both? Are you using the same body position and is the difference you mention primarily in counter steering or weight shifting?I have the 190/55 on my 15 and would like to ride a 2020 for comparison. The 190/55 made a fairly significant difference IMO.

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I'm not a very experienced rider and am watching a lot of videos and trying different methods presented in the videos.

Having said that, the difference I experience is primarily in countersteering at this point.

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The bike steered faster, as expected, but it was also more stable. Very strange, and not expected due to the faster steering. Kawasakis change ? There might be a better way to guess if we knew exactly how they make the change, or even if they did. A slightly shorter fork would change your numbers to match the new bikes. You can try this by sliding the fork tube "up" in relation to the triple clamp. It should have room to slide up 7-8 mm . People have done this and been happy with the change on the older bike.

I banged around on the math a little bit, starting with the presumption that a 190/55 lifts the tail of the Ninja by approx. 10mm relative to the stock 190/50. How much does that 10mm alter the 25.5 degrees of rake on the 2019 fork? I'm not totally sold on my math (never liked story problems), but my sketch calculations suggest that the switch to a 24 degree rake on the 2020 is a

I don't know how much I'd trust any of that, but I guess I'd go with a final answer that I would expect the 2020 geometry changes to be at least as substantial as what could be achieved by the 190/55 tire.

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If you're right that is a significant difference. Wish they'd do a demo day nearby sometime.

I banged around on the math a little bit, starting with the presumption that a 190/55 lifts the tail of the Ninja by approx. 10mm relative to the stock 190/50. How much does that 10mm alter the 25.5 degrees of rake on the 2019 fork? I'm not totally sold on my math (never liked story problems), but my sketch calculations suggest that the switch to a 24 degree rake on the 2020 is amore pronouncedchange to the steering geometry than what is being achieved by switching to a 190/55 tire on the 2019. I think the 190/55 tire change alone is probably worth less than 0.1 degrees of rake, rather than the 0.5 degrees of rake reduction in the 2020.

I don't know how much I'd trust any of that, but I guess I'd go with a final answer that I would expect the 2020 geometry changes to be at least as substantial as what could be achieved by the 190/55 tire.

Stock Tires: Bike flicks into corners pretty quick. Steering is light. But it as soon as you ease up on handlebar pressure the bike changes its line and begins to straighten out. So if you're negotiating back to back switchbacks, you won't notice it much because you're constantly changing directions. But as soon as you negotiate a long, smooth arc, especially if it's just a gentle arcing turn, you will notice you MUST keep pressure on the bars to maintain your chosen line.

Neutral steering feels like this: put pressure on bars to lean one direction. Ease up on the pressure and bike remains in that lean angle. Need opposite pressure on the bars to straight bike out.

The Neutral steering is better. It makes riding twisties easier. It relaxes your brain and your muscles because you can flick bike into corner and leave it there until you're ready to change direction.

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I banged around on the math a little bit, starting with the presumption that a 190/55 lifts the tail of the Ninja by approx. 10mm relative to the stock 190/50. How much does that 10mm alter the 25.5 degrees of rake on the 2019 fork? I'm not totally sold on my math (never liked story problems), but my sketch calculations suggest that the switch to a 24 degree rake on the 2020 is amore pronouncedchange to the steering geometry than what is being achieved by switching to a 190/55 tire on the 2019. I think the 190/55 tire change alone is probably worth less than 0.1 degrees of rake, rather than the 0.5 degrees of rake reduction in the 2020.

I don't know how much I'd trust any of that, but I guess I'd go with a final answer that I would expect the 2020 geometry changes to be at least as substantial as what could be achieved by the 190/55 tire.

The black triangle T-A-B represents the stylized frame of a N1K, where A is at the steering head and T is the front wheel axle and the wheel base is WZ

By definition, the steering angle is X-T-W, , and if we extend the line X-T-A to an imagenary point C, we create a 90* right-angle triangle. It can be shown that the angle X-T-W is the same as C-A-K.

If we raise the rear of the frame, point B which is

We know, from the published N1K specifications, that on the 2017~19 N1K, this angle . . . . (X-T-W) is 24.5* while on the 2020 it is 24*, a reduction 0.5* degrees.

So to achieve a 0.5* reduction in steering angle on a 2017~19, we need to determine the distance SB.

We know that the wheelbase (WZ) is fixed at 1440mm on both the 2019 & 2020 N1Ks.

So if you remember your high-school trigonometry, SB can be determined by the equation

Now, we know that angle BRS = 0.5*, so SB =1440 x tan(0.5). Punch those numbers into your phone's calculator and you get SB = 12.566mm.

Compare this result to the theoretical increase in height by going from a 190x50 to a 190x55 which is 9.5mm.

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That's exactly what I thought! 😆View attachment 29970

The black triangle T-A-B represents the stylized frame of a N1K, where A is at the steering head and T is the front wheel axle and the wheel base is WZ

By definition, the steering angle is X-T-W, , and if we extend the line X-T-A to an imagenary point C, we create a 90* right-angle triangle. It can be shown that the angle X-T-W is the same as C-A-K.

If we raise the rear of the frame, point B which isdirectlyabove the rear axle, the frame will rotate around the front wheel axle to point M, and point C will rotate to point H, and the steering angle will change to P-T-W.

We know, from the published N1K specifications, that on the 2017~19 N1K, this angle . . . . (X-T-W) is 24.5* while on the 2020 it is 24*, a reduction 0.5* degrees.

So to achieve a 0.5* reduction in steering angle on a 2017~19, we need to determine the distance SB.

We know that the wheelbase (WZ) is fixed at 1440mm on both the 2019 & 2020 N1Ks.

So if you remember your high-school trigonometry, SB can be determined by the equation

The Tangent of the angle BRS = SB/1440.

Now, we know that angle BRS = 0.5*, so SB =1440 x tan(0.5). Punch those numbers into your phone's calculator and you get SB = 12.566mm.

Compare this result to the theoretical increase in height by going from a 190x50 to a 190x55 which is 9.5mm.

Beautifully done! First rate. Mechanical engineer?The black triangle T-A-B represents the stylized frame of a N1K, where A is at the steering head and T is the front wheel axle and the wheel base is WZ

...

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347 Posts

Would you say not necessary for a 190/55 rear on the nee one?Having owned a 2011 and now a 2020, I can tell you it is a big difference.

You lost me at T-A-B & I definitely should have listened more in school 😂View attachment 29970

The black triangle T-A-B represents the stylized frame of a N1K, where A is at the steering head and T is the front wheel axle and the wheel base is WZ

By definition, the steering angle is X-T-W, , and if we extend the line X-T-A to an imagenary point C, we create a 90* right-angle triangle. It can be shown that the angle X-T-W is the same as C-A-K.

If we raise the rear of the frame, point B which isdirectlyabove the rear axle, the frame will rotate around the front wheel axle to point M, and point C will rotate to point H, and the steering angle will change to P-T-W.

We know, from the published N1K specifications, that on the 2017~19 N1K, this angle . . . . (X-T-W) is 24.5* while on the 2020 it is 24*, a reduction 0.5* degrees.

So to achieve a 0.5* reduction in steering angle on a 2017~19, we need to determine the distance SB.

We know that the wheelbase (WZ) is fixed at 1440mm on both the 2019 & 2020 N1Ks.

So if you remember your high-school trigonometry, SB can be determined by the equation

The Tangent of the angle BRS = SB/1440.

Now, we know that angle BRS = 0.5*, so SB =1440 x tan(0.5). Punch those numbers into your phone's calculator and you get SB = 12.566mm.

Compare this result to the theoretical increase in height by going from a 190x50 to a 190x55 which is 9.5mm.

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Absolutely not necessary.Would you say not necessary for a 190/55 rear on the nee one?

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I would say simply though, that the 55 on back closely approximates the change in rake between the old bike and the new bike with stock tires. Decreasing rake sharpens the steering.

Also, while I didn't ride the 2020 last saturday (I was at a demo day) I sat on it. The bars seemed higher and wider. Likely why the screen had to change. Higher and/or wider bars would add more steering leverage.

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