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Discussion Starter #1
I did a small Luxembourg ride today, and noticed some problems during the ride.

I have 2-3mm free play on my clutch levers (like it's supposed to), but one on each 6 pulls, it felt like I had 1.5 cm of free play. With that I mean I had no resistance at all ... and the clutch lever went back to its normal state very slowly. 40km further ... It was with every pull.
If I pulled the lever it felt like I only had 20% of clutch pull.

I checked the pin where the clutch cable ends, and it goes from 0 to 100% with every pull. So it's not a cable problem. The tiny spring on the pin also puts it back in position (but much much slower).

As a lot of you mention bad oil can hurt clutch performance.
I did the first oil change myself 600km ago. all rides went smooth.

Service manual recommendation :
Recommended Engine Oil
Type: API SG, SH, SJ, SL or SM with JASO MA, MA1 or MA2
Viscosity: SAE 10W-40

I bought at Louis.de (recommended & compatible with the Z1000SX on their site).
Castrol Power1 4T Engine Oil
HC-Synthetic, 10W-40
Features Trizone TechnologyTM
Exceeds API SJ, JASO MA-2

First I thought maybe it's the clutch springs ... something is not giving the force to pull the lever back.
I don't think its the discs ... as I don't have a slipping clutch.
I did have some false neutrals last year, more then normal. (and also today with the clutch probs).

Clutchless shifts still go great, downshifting abrubt, getting into neutral ... painfull.

I already put this question on our Belgian forum. and somebody said it could be the connection between that pin (where the cable pulss on) & the clutch needle thing.
He had something similar with a Z750 a while ago.

I can't get the bike to my dealer in time to get it fixed I fear.
I buy my parts where he buys them, and if I order sunday evening, they get here Thursday the fastest. He is closed on Monday (and busy schedule).
I want to have the SX back to ride-able asap, as I organize an Eifel weekend this Saturday, 5 days, 50 people joining.

And it is a very very busy week :( I hope I can order everything tomorrow evening, and get it all at home on Friday so I can prepare the bike.

If you have any ideas or suggestions please shoot.
I can make some vids tomorrow morning if necessary.

Here is the Clutch scheme.
The part the friend thinks is broken is marked with the M.

 

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If M is broken, your symptom would be the clutch wont open up, release, or whatever you want to call it.

The cable pulls "the arm labeled M" about 15mm. This turns an internal ramp sideways. This, in turn grabs the other piece labeled "M" and pulls the pressure plate out.

Theres no way to say without looking at it, but before you do, make sure the cable itself is ok.

I kinked cable housing can do this. Strange coincidence this happened after you've had it broken down, do look for something you caused...Not being a jerk about this, just playing the odds sort of thing.


I don't like the angle of the clutch arm in this photo. I needs to be at more of a 90 degree angle to grab the end so piece "M" and "M" can stay connected. I would say the clutch stack height is too thick.

http://www.kawasakininja1000.com/forum/ninja-1000-appearance-modifications/9538-ems-ebony-2011-z1000sx-2.html

I would say that the severe angle has worn that bar looking piece "M" and the lever "M" and they are not staying together.

One quick and dirty option would be to decrease clutch stack height. I dont know if we have enough room to remove one steel plate from inside the pack. Ideally, remove one 2.6mm steel and replace with one 2.0 steel as a quick, temporary, fix. However, removing one steel plate will change how those two "M" pieces interact, and might give you a ride or two .
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If M is broken, your symptom would be the clutch wont open up, release, or whatever you want to call it.

The cable pulls "the arm labeled M" about 15mm. This turns an internal ramp sideways. This, in turn grabs the other piece labeled "M" and pulls the pressure plate out.

Not broken, worn.

here is a picture of the piece the guy replaced on his Z750




At that time it was a more common problem (he says) on Kawasaki's with a lot of miles on them.

He also says that the months before, he had to adjust the cable all the time, something which I also encountered.
And for him as well, the problem started suddenly, and 50km later he had no more working clutch as well.
It's the speed it happened with, that makes me relate to it.

The clutch is still working, but like 20-30% ... and the adjustment is at the max at the moment.


Theres no way to say without looking at it, but before you do, make sure the cable itself is ok.

I kinked cable housing can do this. Strange coincidence this happened after you've had it broken down, do look for something you caused...Not being a jerk about this, just playing the odds sort of thing.


I don't like the angle of the clutch arm in this photo. I needs to be at more of a 90 degree angle to grab the end so piece "M" and "M" can stay connected. I would say the clutch stack height is too thick.

http://www.kawasakininja1000.com/forum/ninja-1000-appearance-modifications/9538-ems-ebony-2011-z1000sx-2.html

I would say that the severe angle has worn that bar looking piece "M" and the lever "M" and they are not staying together.

One quick and dirty option would be to decrease clutch stack height. I dont know if we have enough room to remove one steel plate from inside the pack. Ideally, remove one 2.6mm steel and replace with one 2.0 steel as a quick, temporary, fix. However, removing one steel plate will change how those two "M" pieces interact, and might give you a ride or two .
I want to have all options open.
I rode kinda normal today, while the other rides it was more hooligan style with more shifting.
Yesterday I did some highway and some boring villages to a meeting (lots of shifting), no problems or signs at all.
Just today ...
I think if it would have been a kinked cable I would've noticed before no ?

About which photo are you talking btw ? (you can click on a post number, and you get the direct url to that certain post ;) )

My biggest problem is time ... If I keep sleep to 4-6 hr's a night and work non stop, I might be able to pull a full Friday off for working on the bike. But before I won't be able to have the clutch open.
So yeah bit of a problem. I rather order too much parts then too less, as I will only have one chance.
 

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Here are two new pieces, and it shows how they connect together.

No worries about the angle. I was thinking of a different bike.

I think the arm is rotating, backwards, far enough to not grab the "rod"...sometimes...

I would order a new arm, and rod. I recall these as being 30-25 dollars each.

Notice how much length adjust you have where it mounts at the case.

I think that new arm I have has been redesigned..notice how much more thick it is. Do you suppose yours has worn that thin?
 

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Discussion Starter #5

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Yes, same...thats why I have it as a spare. If it were different, i woukd have installed it, right? . It was ordered in case there was an issue with my slipper conversion. Plus, thats a known wear item as is the arm.

Did you look at yours? That rod is 30.00 to replace before it breaks. If you wait until after, it wont be good.


You can open the cover in 10 minutes. Leave the bike on the stand and you dont even need to drain the oil.

If yours looks like the 750 part, replace both m pieces. Riding it in that condition is foolish and dangerous. There is no saying it wont fail 100% while the bike is in motion. When that happens, the clutch wont open. Bike will be direct drive. Lever will move, but plates wont separate.

Actually, no case removal required for the arm half. Disconnect the clutch cable. Rotate the arm to the rear of the bike. Once it is rotated back, it will lift out. At least you can see if it shows wear. I suspect it might be the issue, but both should be replaced as a set.
 

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I have no idea what's wrong with your bike, but I am sure of a few things.....

All the guessing on the inter web will not help, you need to remove the clutch cover and the clutch and inspect for damage.

You need a clutch cover gasket, and possibly oil and filter depending on what you find.

The pic you posted of the (I am going to call it) the pressure plate pull rod.... The bearings had to be bad on the pull rod. It's a flat needle bearing. My guess is it stopped turning, which is what caused the wear on the tip in the photo.

Stop searching the internet for the one perfect answer, pull the clutch cover off and start looking at parts.

If the bike is on the side stand you can pull the clutch cover without draining the oil. If you find that anything metal has been worn down, you should change the oil and filter of course.
 

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Jay, under normal operation, does that "rod" spin, or is it stationary?

I remember our thrust bearings, and washers, so I'll guess its not supposed to spin, but those are for the side loads. Or, it might spin until the arm grabs it?
 

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Discussion Starter #9


Why do they mention 8 Friction plates + 2 other friction plates
And 1 x 2.3mm clutchplate + 9 x 2.6 clutchplates + 1 x 2.9 clutch plate.

I don't see that many on the schemes ?
 

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Why do they mention 8 Friction plates + 2 other friction plates
And 1 x 2.3mm clutchplate + 9 x 2.6 clutchplates + 1 x 2.9 clutch plate.

I don't see that many on the schemes ?
Because they want the clutch stack height to be within a very specific range, so they offer up two alternate thickness plates to help you get it to that range.

It's a great idea, until you have to order clutch plates and have no idea what to order since you have no new plates in front of you to measure stack height with.
 

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Jay, under normal operation, does that "rod" spin, or is it stationary?

I remember our thrust bearings, and washers, so I'll guess its not supposed to spin, but those are for the side loads. Or, it might spin until the arm grabs it?
I would guess when the clutch lever is disengaged it spins a bit, but when you pull the lever it stops spinning but the pressure plate is spinning like a mug...lol

Just my guess but from the photo he posted, it looks like the bearing failed and the rod was spinning even when the lever was pulled causing the damage seen.

Again, that is just a guess made from looking at a single part.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I would guess when the clutch lever is disengaged it spins a bit, but when you pull the lever it stops spinning but the pressure plate is spinning like a mug...lol

Just my guess but from the photo he posted, it looks like the bearing failed and the rod was spinning even when the lever was pulled causing the damage seen.

Again, that is just a guess made from looking at a single part.
The photo of the rods ?
Those aren't mine, those are of a friend who had a clutch problem.
Same symphtons as mine.
Anyway got home an hour early. Will be opening the clutch tonight.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
My mate was right ... and if I would've just followed the manual, it would have been a hard thing to find (it just mentions as last item, check for unusual wear, no picture).

So I opened the clutch. Easy job, thought it would be harder.
And the guilty ************ was showing directly in full glory :D



ps: first photo of something clean on my bike, withouth having to clean it :D

Not only is there a big cut, but it also seems to be thinner then it has to be.

I guess the cut caused the problem of 1 in 6 lever pulls going bad.
Once the mechanism stuck inside the cut, every lever pull was bad.
Just an idea, but seems possible.

For certainty I measured all the plates.



There is one 2.4mm that has to be replaced, but I'm going to replace 3 of them. (those in the 2.4mm range).

Manual says:
Standard between 2.72 & 2.88 mm (which I don't get, as the OEM pieces shop mentions 2.6mm as default, with a thinner option (2.3mm) and a thicker option (2.9mm)
service limit = 2.4mm

Based upon that info, and not really mentioned in the manual, and the option of thicker & thinner plates. I think I have to get the total thickness back to new state.



I have calculated the ratio, that equals the 2.6mm to 2.8mm (average).

So I have a choice between :
standard 2.8mm (2.6mm)
thinner: 2.48mm (2.3mm)
thicker: 3.12mm (2.9mm)

I think I have to take 2x 2.9mm and one 2.6mm

Is this right ?

If i order before 10 o'clock (in 7 hours) I have them by Thursday.

The springs where 64mm btw.
service limit is 61.8mm, standard = 64.8mm.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I was wrong.
It are the steel plates who are available in different sizes, not the clutch plates.
Orderd a new set of all the clutch plates.
 

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So that pic makes me think you have way different problems than clutch plates.

That pic makes me think you need thr finger and the bearing for sure. The plates may be just fine I do not know.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
So that pic makes me think you have way different problems than clutch plates.

That pic makes me think you need thr finger and the bearing for sure. The plates may be just fine I do not know.
I checked the bearing, that one runs super smooth.

But just to be sure I ordered a new one and the rod as well.
 

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You. Now what...when we convert to the slipper, those pieces stay the same as we know.

Ill bet they last much longer based on how whimpy our new clutch springs are as oposed to the old ones?

How many miles on your bike? That is some odd damage, for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You. Now what...when we convert to the slipper, those pieces stay the same as we know.

Ill bet they last much longer based on how whimpy our new clutch springs are as oposed to the old ones?

How many miles on your bike? That is some odd damage, for sure.
60 000km = 38K miles
 
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