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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, my 2019 N1K has ABS, an IMU, and traction control. Around town I leave the traction control on #2.
With theses features, does this mean I can brake while in a turn?
 

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No offence Bob, but if I may ask, how long have you been riding and what were the bikes you were riding before the N1K?
 

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So, my 2019 N1K has ABS, an IMU, and traction control. Around town I leave the traction control on #2.
With theses features, does this mean I can brake while in a turn?
Yes, you can brake in a turn... The IMU works with the ABS to provide you with TC during a turn (or when the bike is not perpendicular to the ground). Still does not mean that it can prevent a spill. It can give you better control if your tires lose traction while turning up to a point. If you push it further, you are on your own...
 

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Trail braking is an advanced riding technique that has to be learned regardless of TC/ABS. Those are band-aids that will not prevent you from going down if you do something stupid, hehe.
 

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Trail braking is an advanced riding technique that has to be learned regardless of TC/ABS. Those are band-aids that will not prevent you from going down if you do something stupid, hehe.
+1.

I read in forums where folks tout the advantages of trail braking and claim they regularly do it road riding. I got tired of arguing with them that trail braking is meant as a remedial technique to: 1) scrub off speed when you enter the corner too hot, or 2) change line mid-corner (obstacle, oily patch, etc., or just plain chose wrong line).

Trail braking is essentially using up whatever traction is left in your tires - after the majority of it is devoted to cornering - to scrub off speed. So, by its very definition, you are pushing the limits of tire adhesion. If you need to do that on public roads, you are pushing your luck WAYYYY too close to disaster.

If you judge your corner entry speed correctly and take the correct line, there is no need for trail braking while riding normally on public roads. It is best reserved for dealing with contingencies.

That said, it is an advanced technique worth learning, but it is best done on a track, as with any technique that pushes limits.
 

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@cudabob496, regardless of your ABS, an IMU, and traction control setting, you can brake in a turn if that is what you want to do or you find yourself in a situation that would best benefit reducing speed or coming to a stop (unless you are at full lean in a tight turn). Exactly how you brake, how much brake, how much lean, how much traction is left to use what is left for braking is always dependent on the traction you have available after all the factors are added up.

Straight line you have 100% of the brakes available for the current traction. When you are leaning in a turn, you are trading brake traction for lean traction. The more you lean the less traction you have for braking. When you are at full lean, you then have no traction left for braking. Different style/design bikes will respond differently to corner braking, as well as, different riding style. Many riders never brake in a turn as that is how they self-learned and/or were taught (MSF Basic for example). Many riders understand the safety value of trail braking and the skill of braking in a turn, so they use it most of the time. Trail braking isn't an advanced skill, more like somewhere between basic and intermediate level skill both for the track and for safety on the street. ABS on a specific bike may change the feel of corner braking as opposed to another bike without ABS, but both can do corner braking if that is the style and skill of the rider.
 

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@cudabob496
The simple answer is yes. KIBS although designed with racing in mind now is geared to allow an average rider to successfully mash the brakes mid corner and not lose traction.
There are other factors that will come into play though when you do that. Understanding and being able to deal with them could save the day. One will be the extra forces acting on the motorcycle, it will want to stand up and go straight while braking. Unless you have practiced staying in a lean while braking it might surprise you what it takes to keep a bike turning.
Twist of the wrist 2 I think it was, went into braking in a corner in a way that might help you. Plus it's packed with alot of other information that could one day come in handy. Have you heard of survival reaction and why it's a bad thing on a motorcycle? That's really good info to know about.
The advanced rider course also gets into this alittle and is really cheap for what you learn.

Personally I like taking any bike I ride for the first time to a an area with no traffic like a parking lot and getting a feel for it. Every bike wears its weight differently.
A couple of the things I do is explore the limits of the brakes in a straight line and then how the bike feels while braking in a curve.
 

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He wants to know what your experience level is because hes trying to prevent you from crashing and killing yourself. That's all. The correct response is, " Thank you for caring".

You need to learn all of these techniques. Its rarely about being fast on the street. This is all stuff you need to know for an emergency situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ya, in MSF training they do not permit you to brake, while moving in a corner or twistie, unless you first right your bike and begin heading in a straight line. But some corners I've been in are tight and narrow, and there's no room to first straighten up the bike. So it sounds like from the above responses that there is the option to brake while moving through a turn, but keeping in mind that the more lean angle you have, the less braking ability you have, and probably a greater chance of dumping the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
He wants to know what your experience level is because hes trying to prevent you from crashing and killing yourself. That's all. The correct response is, " Thank you for caring".

You need to learn all of these techniques. Its rarely about being fast on the street. This is all stuff you need to know for an emergency situation.
Thank you for caring. (how was that?)
 

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I trail brake if I'm in a hurry. Usually just the front. And ALWAYS easing up as I'm about to hit the apex. Never at full braking force during the turn.

A lot of riders don't like to brake as they enter corners. It's actually a useful technique to go faster if that's what you like, because you maintain speed until the last moment, then brake to scrub off a lot of speed. But do start easing up on brake force before hitting the apex. And do it gently. This technique also makes it harder for your friends to keep up with you or pass you. LOL!

Under most conditions, I rarely brake as I enter corners. I just use throttle. But I use the tallest gear I can get away with and still have good drive out of corners. This minimizes engine braking (which really is similar to just using the brakes). The smaller and lighter the bike, the easier it is to stay in a taller gear, approach corners with a higher than normal speed, and flick the bike in. It's a great "weapon" I love to use on my DR650. Hehe.....365 lbs. wet flicks right into corners while still carrying a lot of speed. More speed than my N1k.
 

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Would the '17+ 6-axis-IMU-enabled ABS keep you from sliding into a low side when you panic brake while banked over in a turn (so common in those Mulholland Dr videos)? Probably. That's one of the benefits of having a system like that on a bike like this. Sport touring means you could be riding on unfamiliar roads, under less than ideal conditions, encountering unexpected hazards. Personally, I'd much rather have it, just in case it could save my bacon. It is one of the key reasons for my buying the N1k over other choice bikes.

Would I take advantage of it in daily riding and - just because I know I can - grab a handful while slicing a corner and let the cornering ABS or TC catch it? Absolutely not! I still ride other bikes and would rather build muscle memories and hone techniques that work well with most bikes, with or without electronic nannies.
 

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Ya, in MSF training they do not permit you to brake, while moving in a corner or twistie, unless you first right your bike and begin heading in a straight line. But some corners I've been in are tight and narrow, and there's no room to first straighten up the bike. So it sounds like from the above responses that there is the option to brake while moving through a turn, but keeping in mind that the more lean angle you have, the less braking ability you have, and probably a greater chance of dumping the bike.
Pretty much. Straight up/straight line we have a 100% (100 points) of brakes (whether that be front, rear and/or both) for the traction conditions (dry, wet, snow, ice, slick, etc.). As soon as we lean, we are going to loose some of the traction because of the lean angle. So it's a trade off, the more lean the less brakes. Nick Ienatsch explains it best(here is the short version), each tire has 100% traction straight up to use for braking. It also has 100% traction for lean angle (without braking). When the bike is straight up it's 100% brake and 0% lean. As we start to lean there is a trade-off, we cannot continue to use a 100% of brakes as we lean because some of those 100 points of traction are being used for lean angle traction (turning/cornering). The father we lean, the more points we need for lean angle turning traction and the less we can use for braking to assure we don't exceed that 100 points total. There are several video online where Nick explains the principle, technique and skill if anyone is interested.

Typically trail braking is slowly releasing brake pressure from whatever amount to zero. Coming into the turn we brake hardest straight line and as we turn in and start to lean, we release brake pressure slowly trading brake force for lean angle. As we lean more, we brake less, until we don't need any brake or we are reaching maximum lean where we cannot use any brakes. This is typically in around the apex (or first apex). It's a learned skill from doing.

Emergency braking to avoid a collision while in the turn is best done if we are still aplying some brakes, because we already have pad contact and less likely to panic brake. How much brake we have at the time we realize we need to get stopped will depend on at what point in the turn we are and how much trail braking we are using. Again, it's a learned skill from doing.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I hated to leave my Z1000, but having ABS, IMU, and traction control can be a real life saver.
(30% fewer fatalities with ABS)
 

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That's a pretty good video. There are several keys to building skills and success, some of which are, "load the tire, before working the tire", "Smooth on, smooth off" whether that be brakes, throttle or any other movement. "Progressive on, regressive off". You can find more valuable videos with a search for YCRS (Yamaha Champions Riding School), and CSS (California Superbike School). One thing we should strive to avoid, any abrupt application on and off of the brakes and throttle, so as mentioned by other smoothness is our friend. Sometimes that smooth is slower and sometimes it needs to be faster, but it never help to be abrupt, as they say in "grab a handful".
 

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That's a good statistic, but its several steps ahead of reality. It's an important number, worth paying attention to until you read that most motorcycle accidents, and deaths, happen and the rider never hit the brakes.
 

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Traction is not really the number one issue. The bike standing up, high siding and spitting your *** off the other side is the issue.
 
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