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I'll check into that. Thank you. I didn't think of bicycles, but I know those folks are insane about weight reduction and friction.

I'll bet the look is good, too. Look at it on the fork tubes and don't be looking at anything else and I hope that's a girl because that's a nice set of tubes. View attachment 33293
I didn't see any tubes???
 

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Do you guys remember the Motus brand motorcycles? If you looked through their literature, they talked about their rear sprocket. It had a lifetime warranty. It is a chicken vs egg discussion, I know, but does this mean anything? To be fair, they are out of business so they may not be the perfect place to draw inspiration from.

This is from their spec sheet. Doesn't it suggest the chain is going to wear sooner than the rear sprocket? I've never done this, but from what I see here, dropping the chain on the 20,000 mile used rear sprocket is ok?

"20,000 mile XW-ring chain by RK
Hybrid rear sprocket with lifetime warranty"

When I buys chains and sprockets, I always buy 2 fronts. Off-road, this made the pieces last longer.
Not only do I remember them, but I got a 20 mile test ride with one of the owners tagging along with us. They did not go out of business due to the bike itself. They did some really interesting things and had Pratt & Miller develop the engine. Their demise was price. The marketing model just didn’t work.
 

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The economy took a dump, just as they were ready to succeed, on top of the price. I would have liked to ask them about their rear sprocket. Like you say , these guys were not dumb, and the product was good. No one ever expected a lifetime rear sprocket, they offered. There had to be an idea behind this?

I hope we see the engine, again. Around here, we have sand. You can't go through the classified without seeing a zx14....Hayabusa..CBR 1000 powered sand vehicle. Motus would have owned that subject, and the engine was simple to rebuild or hop up.
 

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"No maintenance" was literally the premise of the chain. Read BMW's own press release BMW Motorrad Announces Maintenance-Free M Endurance Chain | Rider Magazine they tested exactly what bmw claimed.

Also from the press release, "..nor is any re-tensioning required from time to time due to the usual wear." So it also doesnt require adjusting. Which, i guess, logically follows - if there is zero wear, adjustment wouldnt be necessary.

The revzilla article cut up the failed chain and found the wonder drug DLC was...not any help whatsoever to what commonly kills chains..the sealing rings fail, internal grease leaks out, and the pivot area of the pins wear. That wear is what translates into the slack we adjust out.

Its probably a top tier chain - regina knows how to make them. Its just not worth any price premium over the other premium chains for any objective reason. You like the shiny and dont mind paying for it? Rock on my dude.

ahm
 

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The pin not being coated isn't a negative. I know this coating isn't DLC, but it has similar properties. Even on low powered bicycles,no one dlc coats the sprockets, or pins. Look at the pin in the RevZilla test.

These coatings are hard, like Diamonds,and very slick. Perfect for a fork tube sliding in a seal, or for a camshaft that's sliding on a bucket. If you coat these parts, the friction is reduced.

It's hard, and slick but it would react like a diamond being hit with a hammer. It will shatter, just like glass.

In this application, you would want it to reduce o ring friction and maybe offer better protection against rust.

We will see. If this coating is valuable, the other brands will have to introduce something similar. The cost will be lower once this chain is available without going through BMW. Even RevZilla wants 287.00 for a premium chain. Retail price on that chain is 318.00. Premium chains are expensive.

Common sense has to be applied. I remember ads that said smoking was good for us. Menthol cigs when you had a cold.
 

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Perhaps this was covered and I missed it. Are there sprockets that don't wear? I normally gauge chain life by pulling the chain straight out from the sprocket to see how much play there is between the chain and sprocket. So is it the chain, the sprocket or both causing the play?

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I replace sprockets every time I replace the chain. Why? Because like replacing the oil filter and oil at the same time, we are just pretty sure it’s the right thing to do.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Will a good steel sprocket last as long as the new miracle chains?
 

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No, you didn't miss anything. That's the real question, I think.

If one of these components becomes "wear proof" or higher quality than the others, does it even matter?

Yes, if the worn chain is what damages sprockets.

No, if the worn sprocket is what really destroys the chain.
 

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Jjs, I'm slow today. I think I understand the rest of what you said.

I've never replaced a chain because it stretched 9% more than the manufacturer said ....or however he said it. Especially if my sprocket was in "great condition".

You look at your sprockets, and see how the chains relationship is to them. You check for missing or damaged o rings. His sprockets look good,and his o rings are in place. If that were my chain, I would lube it, wipe it off,adjust and go on with my life.

I think I'll keep track of the xr guy for a better report.

Also, he was able to get 12,000 miles from a rear tire? Unless, you really tried, it would've very difficult to replace the tire and not adjust the chain. You could do that, on a ninja, but even then the axle is harder to position when the chain is tensioned.
 
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Actually, I occasionally just replace the chain. It started when I needed to replace a chain in a hurry because I had a big trip coming up and I didn't have sprockets waiting. The original chain wasn't completely sacked but it was on it's second to last adjustment. It was also on a VFR800. I clipped the new chain to the old one, ran it around the sprockets, masterlink, adjust and done. To my surprise, the new chain/old sprocket combo lasted just as long as my new chain/sprockets did. I've done this a couple times now but I know it's not the right thing to do. Quality steel sprockets nowadays are just that. Keep in mind that I don't ride like many of you do but this is my experience.

I would also note the most often my chain gets replaced not because the entire chain is stretched but because one section has failed and worn. You know, the tight chain, loose chain you get rotating the rear wheel.
 
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I think it's one of those best practices things more so that a hard rule. Then there's the guilt factor. 150 for a chain, plus labor. It's not a great time to cheap out over 80.00 in sprockets if it might last longer.

What is happening when we see the chain fail, in sections? That doesn't sound possible, but I think we have all seen that. When you tighten a chain, I think we all look for the tight spot to base the setting on.

The gearing commander faq has a lot of good info that makes sense. He does talk about patterns. How it would be more desirable to run a gearing set up that doesn't divide, evenly. This avoids the wear patterns when the chain hits the same spots, constantly.
 

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So let’s take this a step further. Is the front sprocket stronger than the back? It’s the one that can be a ***** to change. Some bikes more than others. I have not had to change them in 3-4 years
 

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The front sprocket is going to be hardened steel. I'm not aware of anyone using anything but a steel front. It gets worked to death since it only has 14-17 teeth, on most bikes.

I am sure you remember the nylon rear sprocket, late 70's. Those were good, but some company make knock off parts that were no good, so the idea died.
Wood Gear Art Circle Composite material
 

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I think it's one of those best practices things more so that a hard rule. Then there's the guilt factor. 150 for a chain, plus labor. It's not a great time to cheap out over 80.00 in sprockets if it might last longer.

What is happening when we see the chain fail, in sections? That doesn't sound possible, but I think we have all seen that. When you tighten a chain, I think we all look for the tight spot to base the setting on.

The gearing commander faq has a lot of good info that makes sense. He does talk about patterns. How it would be more desirable to run a gearing set up that doesn't divide, evenly. This avoids the wear patterns when the chain hits the same spots, constantly.
I never would have considered not changing both together until it happened from necessity. Had that 2nd chain + old sprockets lasted 5k miles less I would not have been surprised and would have gone back to ye olde beliefs. I'm only reporting my own experience.

I've always figured that chains failed in sections simply because there were minute differences in the links. I mean when we clean the chain, we try to clean each link evenly. Same with lubing, we try to lube every link the same. All it takes is a few failing o-rings and the wear starts.

As for sprockets, the front gets the most abuse/stress just from the size. On my VFRs I ran aluminum rear sprockets for many years with good results. Back then I always did chain/sprockets together as a set.
 
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Here a few months ago, I was too lazy to dry the stock chain, after the rain storm. The next day it had a decent amount of surface rust. I cleaned it, and visually, you would never know, but I wonder what it looks like, under the o rings? I don't see any possible way I didnt shorten it's life in just the one event. It wasn't just a rain. Hail that tried to break fingers was also part of it.

I need to order this$$$$ chain and cut this old one apart to have a look. Just like the doctor verifying some of my illnesses within autopsy. I would get the autopsy, but the insurance only covers 80%.
 

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I saw the ad that Regna has for ithis cgain. One part said...

"that extensive lab and street testing has demonstrated the chain has a useful life that is “at least equivalent, if not greater, than a traditional regularly re-lubricated Z-Ring chain.”

I don't know what this means, and I'm not sure they do, either. If you ignore it, the lifespan is equal to a well maintained chain? I think we saw that isn't true.

Lots of people using g it on their BMW bikes,and they are happy . Happier than they would be with some other high end chain? Hard to say.
 

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I saw the ad that Regna has for ithis cgain. One part said...

"that extensive lab and street testing has demonstrated the chain has a useful life that is “at least equivalent, if not greater, than a traditional regularly re-lubricated Z-Ring chain.”

I don't know what this means, and I'm not sure they do, either. If you ignore it, the lifespan is equal to a well maintained chain? I think we saw that isn't true.
Well, the way I translate it; "The little work I do to maintain my DID chain is worth $100+"
 

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I think you that's probably the right answer. Our chains are pretty good now. It's not like we are having problems that need to be solved.

I wanted something that might hold up to a rain storm if I didn't dry it the instant got home.
 

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I'll bet I could get 80,000 from the chain? I buy it and install. From that point on, I would punish myself for buying a chain like that $$$. I'd be out there with q tips, leaches, anything that would remove dirt.
 
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"No maintenance" was literally the premise of the chain. Read BMW's own press release BMW Motorrad Announces Maintenance-Free M Endurance Chain | Rider Magazine they tested exactly what bmw claimed.

Also from the press release, "..nor is any re-tensioning required from time to time due to the usual wear." So it also doesnt require adjusting. Which, i guess, logically follows - if there is zero wear, adjustment wouldnt be necessary.

The revzilla article cut up the failed chain and found the wonder drug DLC was...not any help whatsoever to what commonly kills chains..the sealing rings fail, internal grease leaks out, and the pivot area of the pins wear. That wear is what translates into the slack we adjust out.

Its probably a top tier chain - regina knows how to make them. Its just not worth any price premium over the other premium chains for any objective reason. You like the shiny and dont mind paying for it? Rock on my dude.

ahm
Finally had it installed, will keep you posted
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