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I need to apologize to Motoman. Aparently I scaredd him so much he had to turn me into the moderators. Motoman, I'm sorry for scaring you with the words I posted on this thread.
Yeah, don't worry RC. you didn't scare me at all. I just called your bluff. And now you are whining about it.

I can't compete with someone who spends every waking moment on this message board. I have a Life. So getting into a pissing match with you is not something I can afford to do. I just pointed out to the Admin that his board is being ruined by a Post Whore who can't seem to shut up.
 

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Motoman, again, sorry for scaring you. The only reason a grown up would need to go to a moderator is out of fear. Fear that they cannot handle things themselves.

 

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Discussion Starter #166
Finally got both the ECU flashed and the Akra exhaust. I love it so far. The exhaust swap makes the bike alot more nimble in the corners and in the parking lot. The flash is great as expected. It smooths out the low end, and adds alot to the top end. First and second gear are noticably smoother. Only weird thing is when I start it up, it idles from 1000 to 2000 randomly, altough I don;t have this issue at stop lights.

Question: if I made further mods, such as a new airbox, would it have to be reflashed?
 

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2017 Yamaha FZ-10 2017 Suzuki M109R
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Interesting, my girlfriend's '14 Z1000 idles like that when started cold (not immediately, but shortly after it starts), but idle is smooth once warmed up and when coming to a stop while riding.

New airbox? What airbox are you thinking about? What will the improvement be over stock? The question should be, is there a flash available for your planned mod? I would check with Ivan too see if he has a flash that will work for your planned mod before moving forward with the mod.
 
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Discussion Starter #168
Interesting, my girlfriend's '14 Z1000 idles like that when started cold (not immediately, but shortly after it starts), but idle is smooth once warmed up and when coming to a stop while riding.

New airbox? What airbox are you thinking about? What will the improvement be over stock? The question should be, is there a flash available for your planned mod? I would check with Ivan too see if he has a flash that will work for your planned mod before moving forward with the mod.
I don't have anything in mind, I'm just hypothetically wondering if getting any further mods would require a re-flash.
 

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If you open up the air box, you may experience some backfiring due to the different air:fuel ratio (ie too rich). However, if you already have a flash of the ECU, then you may not experience any issues at all.
 
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Back when Ivan was still suggesting a PowerCommander to get the fueling 100% correct, he sent two different maps for the PC, one for a stock airbox and one for a modded airbox. If you decide to mod your airbox, may be worth checking with Ivan to see if you would need a reflash, or if the current flash will accommodate both stock and modded airboxes.
 
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The idle moving around is 100% normal. It only happens under specific conditions, like when it's cold out. I went all summer long, without it. Today, as it was 42 degrees out, and I noticed it. It disappears as soon as the bike warms up and the ecu moves out of the warm up mode. You almost have to be looking for it. It's only there when the bike is parked on the kickstand. Theres a good reason for it. The bike works better with its idle set to 1400-1500 rpm. If you set the bike for that, you wont have the idle thing very often. Theres a VERY good reason it does this, but the reason is more in the column of what makes this flash way, way different than what the others offer. If you have to know the exact reason, Ivan takes phone calls and will explain it.

This flash isnt related to what happened back in the powercommander days other than the same person sells it. I think that flash was e 1 and e2......its now up to e6, or maybe e7.

If a person is still running the old flash, send the ecu back and have it updated to the current version. That let's you get rid of the powercommander and fce. Theres no charge, other than postage. You dont even have to be the person who bought the flash in the first place, so theres no excuse not to..

The new flash offers the same high rpm power as we had, back then, but the small throttle opening/low rpm performance is in a different dimension than the older flash offered.

Nothing we did, back then, applies to the current, e6 flash. That information was good, back in 2012, but not so much now. Notice how some of the dyno charts say, "obsolete "...that's why.

Now you wont have a special flash for an airbox mod. If you havent modded your airbox, hold off and try it , stock. It was never worth much, anyway. This bike has one big problem area, and that's the stock header. If you want good top end power, that has to be replaced with pretty much anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter #174
The idle moving around is 100% normal. It only happens under specific conditions, like when it's cold out. I went all summer long, without it. Today, as it was 42 degrees out, and I noticed it. It disappears as soon as the bike warms up and the ecu moves out of the warm up mode. You almost have to be looking for it. It's only there when the bike is parked on the kickstand. Theres a good reason for it. The bike works better with its idle set to 1400-1500 rpm. If you set the bike for that, you wont have the idle thing very often. Theres a VERY good reason it does this, but the reason is more in the column of what makes this flash way, way different than what the others offer. If you have to know the exact reason, Ivan takes phone calls and will explain it.

This flash isnt related to what happened back in the powercommander days other than the same person sells it. I think that flash was e 1 and e2......its now up to e6, or maybe e7.

If a person is still running the old flash, send the ecu back and have it updated to the current version. That let's you get rid of the powercommander and fce. Theres no charge, other than postage. You dont even have to be the person who bought the flash in the first place, so theres no excuse not to..

The new flash offers the same high rpm power as we had, back then, but the small throttle opening/low rpm performance is in a different dimension than the older flash offered.

Nothing we did, back then, applies to the current, e6 flash. That information was good, back in 2012, but not so much now. Notice how some of the dyno charts say, "obsolete "...that's why.

Now you wont have a special flash for an airbox mod. If you havent modded your airbox, hold off and try it , stock. It was never worth much, anyway. This bike has one big problem area, and that's the stock header. If you want good top end power, that has to be replaced with pretty much anything else.
Ok thanks. I was just wondering since Ivan's dyno numbers for the bike, in addition to the flash/Akra exhaust have a Airbox mod/BMC filter. I don't have the need for either of those, but maybe one day I would need to replace some parts and consider those...
 

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I have the bmc filter, and either 2 or 3 different airboxes that have been butchered.

The flash counts for 99.7% of the improvement. I would have to pretend the filter and mods are worth the .3% as I really cant feel them. That's for this bike...I dont know about others. You can hear a different sound, but I'm not convinced it does anything except let the filter get dirty, faster.

If you are looking at Ivan's numbers, be sure and look at the two different generations of the ninja 1000. Call it the 11-13 and the 14 and later bikes.

Notice how restricted the 11-13 bikes were. Especially in the low end . Once flashed, the older bikes were stronger, on top. I remember swing dyno charts showing the bmc filter and airbox mod was worth about 1 hp. It went from 146 to 147 on the old bike. Nothing, really, but the BMC filter was reusable. If you did a lot of miles, it would pay for itself before long.

With the new flash, Ivan did not re-do the dyno charts. Full open throttle performance stayed the same as it always was. A dyno only reads at full throttle...not really, but that's all anyone posts. Full throttle runs.

For the later bikes, Kawasaki changed the cams and did not restrict the low end as much. Maybe because the newer bike had traction control? Who knows? The later bikes also had some airbox tweaks. Different length velocity stacks and the floor plate had holes in it. If you want to play with this stuff, airboxes are cheap on ebay. Buy the one that's from a different generation and you'll have all kinds of pieces to play with for way less money than buying new.
 

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Discussion Starter #176
I have the bmc filter, and either 2 or 3 different airboxes that have been butchered.

The flash counts for 99.7% of the improvement. I would have to pretend the filter and mods are worth the .3% as I really cant feel them. That's for this bike...I dont know about others. You can hear a different sound, but I'm not convinced it does anything except let the filter get dirty, faster.

If you are looking at Ivan's numbers, be sure and look at the two different generations of the ninja 1000. Call it the 11-13 and the 14 and later bikes.

Notice how restricted the 11-13 bikes were. Especially in the low end . Once flashed, the older bikes were stronger, on top. I remember swing dyno charts showing the bmc filter and airbox mod was worth about 1 hp. It went from 146 to 147 on the old bike. Nothing, really, but the BMC filter was reusable. If you did a lot of miles, it would pay for itself before long.

With the new flash, Ivan did not re-do the dyno charts. Full open throttle performance stayed the same as it always was. A dyno only reads at full throttle...not really, but that's all anyone posts. Full throttle runs.

For the later bikes, Kawasaki changed the cams and did not restrict the low end as much. Maybe because the newer bike had traction control? Who knows? The later bikes also had some airbox tweaks. Different length velocity stacks and the floor plate had holes in it. If you want to play with this stuff, airboxes are cheap on ebay. Buy the one that's from a different generation and you'll have all kinds of pieces to play with for way less money than buying new.
Thanks. I think I'll stick with stock then.

How would you compare the flashed bike with other supersports as far as performance goes? I am a noob and have never rode a supersport. I've looked at the dyno charts and in flashed form it seems comparable to the 600s.
 

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The flashed bike, with a good exhaust , makes power that is almost identical to a stock 2004 zx10. That's the one that scared everyone to death, back then. Not so much for its high power output. It was more about its instant response.

The modern supersport bikes are tuned to have very little low end, and not great midrange. When an engine is set up, like that, it can make the high top end power numbers. So it really doesnt compare to a modern supersport machine and that's not a bad thing for a street bike.

It's also difficult to compare a us edition of the supersport bikes. A lot of them are very restricted at 10,000 and beyond. If they dont get flashed, they dont make anywhere near the 200 hp they could be capable of. That's mostly emissions related.

You should try one as it really shows you the total, oposite way to set up a 1000cc motorcycle. This is what makes a supercharger, or turbocharger so amazing. If you have one of those, you can have it all. Great power, everywhere.

There are things like variable valve timing that try to flatten that power curve, but for the most part, its simple.

If you picture a power curve as being like a see-saw. If you push one end down, the other end goes up....but it cant go up without the other end falling down. That's if everything was tuned properly without regards for emissions or restrictions that are set up to protect beginner riders.

The only way to push everything up is to increase displacement size, or the supercharger-turbu thing.
 

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The question ends up bei g, "Why did they ruin the zx10, as a streetbike, when so few race and would be able to take advantage of the 30 extra top end horsepower?"

The answer is the same way they ruined motocross bikes. Production based racing. They are now allowed to change so few parts, that they have to make the base bike much more racing oriented.

Now, I stead of the factory buying g a set of 5000.00 dollar, titanium con rods, they make you buy them so they are already there when they start to build the race bike. That base 2019 zx10rr is 24,999 because of a few different pieces they wanted for the race bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #179
Did my first proper power wheelie on the bike. Need to practice so I don't smash my nuts again lol. Pirellis are on so all I have left for the modding project are a fender eliminator (although I want mine to tuck in which doesn't seem to be an option in the aftermarket stuff) and adding a anime ninja girl sticker on it...
 
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