You have no idea what first hand info I have, what ECU's I've tried, or what pieces I own. I'm not going there. I have an entire shelf covered in brake calipers, and rotors. Spending 200 on a spare ecu never bothered me .
I'm not afraid to spend money to find the best.
I dont say things for the fun of it. Well, except when messing with Motoman. Then I do, and then I exaggerate. The building I posted wasnt Ivans shop. That was a new Amazon warehouse. In that context I said poor work. You got the best someone could offer with software that wont/cant compete. Of course that doesnt have to mean poor, or bad, but it's not going to be the best.
The flash kits are popular and they do a decent job with flashing. But, to say they are on par with what Ivan offers is LOL funny. That argument has been had a thousand times, and not once has it ever been found to be true. Read the reviews I didnt post. Look at the dyno charts I had nothing to do with. You get a better flash, more power, and higher quality work. Often times it's not a hundred times better, but so far, no one has equaled it. The same argument t happened in the concours 14 in 2017. The established guy had flashed hundreds and people loved it. The people who really cared paid Ivan another 350 for his flash. He flashed over hundreds of them. At one time he showed a stack of receipts. No one went back to the established flash. That guy is not trying to hustle business on the Versys 1000 forum.
There is a uk company who has made a fortune "flashing" ecu's. The problem is, they dont actually do anything. Yes, they have good reviews. Theres a mental aspect at play when people do things themselves. A good example of this is in another thread here. Notice how the owner is please with himself after cutting off 1/3 mounts from his case guard. Sure, any tip over will destroy his frame, but hes happy.
When someone owns their own dyno, their own software, their own Datalogue equipment, the price is easily 100k. Why would anyone spend that money if they could get the same result with a 450.00 flash cable and build a business around a license fee? That would be stupid.
When that same person also has 9 years of experience with that specific bike, and more involved software, they will always be able to do a better job than you can with your own O2 sensor and laptop. Let's hope so, right? Especially when they spend years developing very specific bikes....not every bike like the others do.
I guess you guys may have been discussing tuners in general, but given the discussion it was in the context of the Ninja. And addiitonal info that's important, but was alluded to as otherwise, is that Ivan has real world experience with his tunes. Albeit in the context of his particular riding.It's all good, whether we're talking about an M109R or an N1K, we are discussing the ECU flash, so that's the info that's important.