[rcannon409]

When you buy a Japanese motorcycle, it will be supplied with tires. These tires will have a brand name you have heard of.

However, these tires you get will not be the real thing. The tire will be a low cost version of the tire. If you buy the same tire, from the aftermarket, it will be a completely different tire.

This isn't my thought or my idea. This fact is well documented, and has even tried for the last 20-30 years.

With that in mind, please email careful who you take tire advise from. If someone offering this advise hasn't figured this out, you are reading a report about something completely different than you think you are.

 

[bbikerguy]

The original S22 tires don't have as much rubber. I replaced mine after only 3000 miles.

Yes, if you can, I'd suggest replacing them before any longer trips. Not only will regular tires last longer, they should handle better. I went with Pilot Road 4 but there are many good sport touring tires to choose from.

 

[Hasan]

I like the S22. It feels nice, if that makes any sense. But I don't have the skills to really push any tyre to its limits so thats all the feedback I can provide.

I will be replacing them with Angel GT 2, because I hope to get more mileage out of them.

 

[jjscsix]

It’s almost like some sort of in to admit that OEM tires are any good. The S22s handled fine for me but wore out at about 4,500 miles, which is low miles for me.

 

[rcannon409]

I dont see it like that, so much, but I hear what you are saying.

No, the oem tires are not scary, dangerous, or anything terrible. Even on our 2011 bikes, you could wear them out and not be scared.

Who needed a ride report to figure that out? It's pretty tough to find a motorcycke tire that won't work for riding a motorcycle.

Also, knowing it's an oem grade tire was important because we would need to order this exact tire from Kawasaki, themselves, to get the exact tire. A aftermarket tire is different as would be the "identical" tire if Honda, or Suzuki happened to use the same tire, built to their spec.

 

[MicMac]

My OEM S22 rear tyre was looking fairly worn at 6,800k (4,200m). The wear indicators were showing that it was still legal and it hadn't obviously squared off, but it's handling wasn't as good - tipping into corners was becoming more unsettled and 'tram lining' going across parallel road joins was becoming evident.
The front tyre seemed to be fine at this point.

Anyway, I've just done a three day ride across our Snowy Mountains region while waiting for a set of Pirelli Angel GT 11 replacements I ordered last week.

The rear went downhill very, very quickly. Within another 600k (350m) the wear indicators were showing that it was illegal and it was easy to see that it now was squared off. The handling also went awol. Tipping into corners became very unstable, although it was ok when over.

By the time I got home (another 300k/185m) it was not a very pleasant ride!!

So in the end, at a total of 7,700k (4,800m) the rear is totally rooted (to use one of our old expressions) and the front is now looking worn and is also handling like a bag of **** (another old Oz expression ).
I'll do a report/opinion on the Pirelli GTs in a few weeks when I've clocked up some kilometres/miles.

 

[MicMac]

For reference - These were used during the break-in period, minimal riding in the rain and pressures were set (and regularly checked) at Kawasaki's recommended 36/42 psi for front/rear.
I found the S22s very stable, grippy and I was confident in them up until nearly 7,000k (4,500m). In the end the very good feed-back (of both tyres and bike) let me know that they were done and dusted.

 

[Volfy]

The OEM S21s that came with my '18 were well behaved for road riding. Mileage-wise, they were about average for sportbike tires. Mfrs don't always spec OEM tires based on cost alone. These carry the same speed/load rating as aftermarket replacement S21s and likely have the exact same carcass, if not very very similar. It actually costs more $$$ to retool/recalibrate the production line for a limited run of mfr-specified tires off the same S21 production queue. Tire compound might be tweaked a bit, which is a lot easier to do, since it's just pouring different mixes of pellets into the various bins. Contrary to popular belief and internet folklore, mfrs aren't always penny-pinching and skimping on OEM tire quality (though that does happen). Rather, they pick tires and compounds based on what their expectation of what would work best in that particular bike. These bikes have one chance of making a first impression, especially to moto-journalists jaded with having sampled potentially far better handling bikes. What those journals say about how the bike feels on the stock tires are often what consumers base their buying decisions on.

OTOH, new owners have widely varying expectations on mileage, handling, grip (both dry and wet), and more vain qualities like aesthetics, brand name, and bragging rights. A lot of these qualities are competing goals. It is inevitable for many owners to displike OEM tires, which by their very mission have to be generalists. Some think they don't last long enough; others badmouth them for not being high enough spec'ed for ultimate performance. This is particularly true for sport tourers, which again by definition are supposed to be jack of many trades and master of none. Heck, some just flat out don't like a particular brand, cus some guy with that tire brand screwed their girlfriend.

Besides, folks like to choose. Just look at how many "which tire is best" threads there are. With OEM tires, that choice wasn't theirs. Once they do get to choose, they will most likely be confirmation-biased toward the one they personally chose and paid $$$ for. Consumers studies have shown that there is a strong positive correlation between price willingly paid and perceived quality/performance, whether differences actually exist vs. less costly options. Who wants to admit they paid 2x more for something that only works 1.25x or no better?

 

[rcannon409]

Volfy, as usual, you are not correct on the OEM tires. When Kawasaki, Honda, Suzuki, or Yamaha buys OEM tires, they dont buy 4 or 5 of them. For this bike, the order would be closer to 50,000 sets, if not more. They order enough tires to where a savings of a dollar or two would amount to something much more substantial. PS...they dont save a dollar or two, per tire. They pay prices that are similar to the tire prices you see here.

JG1083-130-70-12-dot-sawtooth

JG1083-130-70-12-dot-sawtooth

www.alibaba.com

This isnt my idea, or thought. Google can help a lot on this topic.



One small clue appears in the Cycle World test when they say, "That increase in traction was also at least partly thanks to the new Bridgestone Battlax Hypersport S22 tires, specially developed for this bike."

Either Kawasaki asked Brigestone to develop the entire range of Battleax Hypersport tires around this specific bike, or this specific tire was an oem grade tire, made for this bike.

Unless you were to go to the Kawasaki parts counter and order a tire, you wont see this tire, again.

Im not aware of anyone who had ANY motorcycle experience who did'nt notice the difference between their original tires and ANY aftermarket tire they bought. Even a 100% new, beginner would recognize the difference.

 

[Volfy]

RC, you do occasionally see OEM-spec tires listed for sale through aftermarket channels. Sometimes they do tell you which mfr(s) that particular variant were for. Other times they just list them as J-spec or L-spec, or some identifier thereof. My guess is they are either production over-runs, which the OEM customer didn't want, or the OEMs themselves might have bought too many than needed and subsequently dump back onto the secondary market. Who knows. I tend to shy away from these OEM replacement tires, unless the clearance prices are enticing enough vs. the "real" aftermarket ones.

Just as an example, these T30 Type J were supposedly OEM replacement for the CB1100. They probably will work well enough on other bikes. https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tu...x-t30-j-sport-touring-motorcycle-tire/p/58841

BTW, I find that F9 guy kinda annoying. Not that he doesn't put out good content, but he tends to sensationalize the topic at hand to get eyeballs and click count. To some degree, all the interweb influencers do that to some degree, but I find some do it worse than others.

 

[Volfy]

F9 was just flat out wrong on several occasions. Here is one where he incorrectly described motorcycle tire adhesion properties:

Watch this vid where Mike corrected this common misconception. He even showed (referenced) F9's vid.

Mike has nowhere near the number of subscribers as F9, but his content are much more on point and he has more accurate & in-depth grasp on the technical aspects than the annoying F9 dude.

As usual, don't believe everything you see on the interwebs.

 

[rcannon409]

I dont believe everything I read. A perfect example of this is when I call you on your nonsense, and partial truths.

We were not talking about wider tires, or car tires, that I know of. This was about oem tires and how they are different than aftermarket.

When you replaced your oem tires, you didnt notice a difference? If not, this just became comical.

Assiming an owner wasnt able to look at date codes, or plant codes on their oem tires. Doing so would show that the tire wasnt the same as what they replace it with. They could also search.

For anyone who has experience more than year, or two, this isnt new information. Its been this way back into the 1970's and isnt going to change.

 

[Volfy]

Read into it what you wish. Believe what you will. Calling me wrong or nonsense doesn't prove you right. It's indicative of a lack of substantive counter argument. This is indeed oft-repeated old news.

We can all put forth whatever info we so chose. Let others decide what's right and what's wrong.

 

[rcannon409]

Volfy, when you pick a side that isn't able to be verified. In fact, the side you chose is wrong...what would you call that? This isn't anything. It's another case if you thinking you knew more than you really did, and not being able to admit it when someone proved you wrong. Again. Repeat. A weekly thing.

Or, the fact that common sense doesn't apply? As if Kawasaki isn't doing anything possible to keep their bikes low cost.


This is regarding Japanese bikes. Triumph, BMW, and Italy typically don't do this. None of them sell enough to make this worthwhile. They also worry more about quality than the vehicles price.

It's fine to believe the earth is flat, if you want to. I don't mind. It's another thing when you share that nonsense with people who might not know the difference, or have not ridden long enough to prove this to themselves.

As soon as someone changes their tires, they will understand.

In this specific case, Cycle World confirmed this....well, unless you want to read it as Bridgestone used this specific bike to develope the s22 Hypersport tire line up. At this point, why not? I'm sure they did.

2020 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 SX First Ride Review

Ride-enhancing technology makes the 2020 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 SX a fun and capable do-it-all sport-tourer.

www.cycleworld.com

 

[rcannon409]

Volfy leaving home, on his way to "special" Engineering School.......

 

[Eagle Six]

If the OEM s22's on the 2020 N1K were specially designed for that model as Cycle World proclaims, I guess they were different from the s22's I had on my ZX14r before the 2020 N1K was available! I did get 3K less miles out of the N1K OEM tires than the S22's on my zx14r and I don't baby the tires on the zx14r.

 

[rcannon409]

They also show the zx6 as using that tire, since 2019. It makes me wonder how "special" the ninja tire might be? But, even at that, if you bought a s22, from Revzilla, you would know its different. Few people ever do that. They will buy Michelins, or such, and be astonished at how much better the new tires are. But, if you are talking zx6, ninja 1000, z 1000, you are buying enough tires to where you get exactly what you want.

It makes sense you might spec a harder, more durable rubber. I dont think normal people would be happy when their front tire was gone, in 3000 miles.

Honda still has a spec for their oem tires. The tire has to be able to protect the rim from damage hiting a curb, at 25 mph. No wonder the sidewall is tougher than normal?

If you had ever ridden on our original ninja 1000 tires, the Brigestone BT016, this idea of an oem tire vs a aftermarket version would be as apparent as the difference between color tv and black and white.

Our bt016's were..shi*......very low quality. I punctured my front tire, with under 100 miles. I didnt want to waste the rear tire, so I ordered a real bt016. The bike ride better, the front suspension wasnt as harsh. The bike steered better, and handled better.

 

[Minlak]

I had S22 OEM on my 2021 SX - I felt I was having trouble leaning in - I assumed it was me and rusty - Stuff happened and I ended up with a Angel GT rear - I picked up the bike - Drove it home - Turned around and got an Angel Gt fitted to the front too - Way better than the S22 and my tip in was instantly better.

 

[Volfy]

RC, of course OEMs get volume discounts that you and I don't get. That is not even worth mentioning. The point is whether OEMs saves money by secretly specifying a substantially lesser quality tire and stamp the same S22 moniker on it. Most of the cost of manufacturing a tire goes into building the carcass. Whether Kawasaki buy a batch of 5,000 or 50,000 of the same S22 tires, how that carcass is built won't change. They still have to meet the same tire ratings (molded into the tire), which are the same whether it is OEM S22 or aftermarket S22. They have to, because Mr. moto journalist might just thrash the **** out of those OEM tires while testing at the track. Any owner can do the same. Kawasaki cannot afford to slap lesser quality tire carcass, lest they wish to risk the liability of the consequences. No mfr dares to go that far.

Sure they might change the tire compound. Sometimes, they might even spec a stickier compound that wear a bit faster, so as to make the initial reviews more impressive, knowing the reduced service life probably won't get much attention, until the bikes are bought and actually ridden by owners.

When OEMs do cheap out is when they spec an older model that the tire mfr has already recouped the R&D cost on and can sell for less. For quite a while, BMW was putting BT-021/022 on K1600s. Those were practically ancient. Why they do that instead of newer models... who knows... cost cutting is a pretty good guess there. Are those OEM BT-021/022s any better or worse than aftermarket BT-021/022s Bridgestone used to sell? More than likely not a whole lot, if any.

 

[Eagle Six]

I think the list for the s22 in addition to the N1K and ZX6r would include the zx10r, zx14r, one of the H2 models, maybe some others.

there was very little difference in the handling of the N1K on OEM s22's as compared to my zx14r on retail s22's. They were all solid at lean. The only noticeable difference was in the life of the OEM s22 on the 2020 N1K and that was from a flat center on the rear. And that was probably because most of the miles I put on that set were more travel miles rather than my usual twisty miles.