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57x, do you have a good source for the cl branded pads? I saw that Kurvey Girl now has Brembo, but they are very expensive. From what I've read, the brembo is up in the Vesrah category. Great, bit not worth paying twice as much for.

Who has a good selection of CL?

Also when people say things like, " A sinetered pad is a Sinetered pad" thats like saying "One rubber tire is the same as another tire". Total 100% bullshit. Enjoy your ebc pads and have fun pretending you bought good pads.
 

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Just for the record, intelligent people respond like this when presented with options....

Responses like, "No ****..ive never heard of that brand, do they really work better?. They are expensive. Is it worth paying extra for?"

Intelligence: the ability to adapt to change.

On the other side of the scale, you'll get responses like this:

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"As for pads one is as good as the other. A sintered pad is a sintered pad. Sure there may be minor differences but for street riding they will be minimal. I dont believe ebc makes junk any more then i believe Vesrah makes the golden egg. If EBC were pure crap they would be out of business long ago. Like i said you cant argue with hundreds and hundreds of positive reviews. Pick your poison and enjoy. No matter what you choose as long as its a good brand name you will be fine. "

This is the easy way out. It requires no thought, zero knowledge, and no research. Its sad, really, because you started this thread asking for something better. However, when you found it, it did'nt agree with what you thought, and might require a change in your thinking.....nope, no way.....cant have that! Join the flock and be sure to buy as much toilet paper as you can.
 

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Spiegler has a great selection of CL pads at good prices. I get mine locally from Kyle Racing.

And yes, Brembo Z04 pad prices are just stupid priced at $122 per caliper. I only do 4-5 track days per year, so these should last a long time.
 

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This forum is one of very few I've come across where folks don't get nasty when they disagree. I have to give credit where credit is due. I don't know if the demographic of N1k riders has anything to do with it. This article gave some interesting statistics.

Personally, I dislike absolutes. I have owned, ridden and wrenched on many bikes, but I could not possibly have tried every combination of parts and bikes. So I avoid saying one thing is "better" without qualification, unless I know it to be absolutely true. All I can say is that I've had EBC HH pads on many bikes and they've all served me well. Last set I put in was on my '10 VFR1200F, which comes with sintered metallic pads as OEM. The VFR1200F is well known for having excellent brakes. Being a heavy bike (~600 lbs) the aggressive initial bite fitted that bike quite well. So, when it came time to change pads, I saw no reason not to go with the EBC HH, since they were actually about 40-50% less expensive than the Honda OEM sintered metallic pads. The result were, as expected, the same excellent braking performance as stock pads. I'm a bit of a late heavy braker and, especially with the weight of that bike, am not kind to substandard pads.

Bikes come with different configurations and equipment. Most Euro bikes come OEM with stainless steel braided lines, whereas the vast majority of Japanese bikes have stock rubber lines. This fact alone could make a difference on what brake pads might work well with which bike. FWIW, I never did swap out VFR1200F's stock rubber lines for aftermarket braided S.S. lines, so, who knows, perhaps that combination might prove to be too aggressive. Japanese mfrs have justified their continual use of stock rubber brake lines precisely because SS braided might make their brake feel too aggressive. How true that is I don't know, but it is a point that they've explicitly mentioned.

I don't have that much seat time on the N1k yet, but so far I'm not really all that impressed with the front brake. The lever pulls rather soft and does not have as much feel as I'd like. In fact, I'm unimpressed enough that I've just bought a set of HEL SS braided brake lines from the UK. We'll see how it goes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
@RCAnnon Im sorry that you have taken this so personally and seem to dislike critical thinking and common sense. I asked for thoughts on the EBC HH pads and you gave your opinion. I thanked you for that and factored it into my own research which I have been doing for days. At the end of the day I think my conclusion is logical and not based in seat of the pants claims but rather rider reviews and opinions both for and against also factoring in how the bike was designed and likely tested by the engineers who made it.

Suffice it to say if you enjoy Vesrah thats great. Buy versa and use them in your bike to your hearts content! No one will fault you as that is your personal choice. There is no need to get nasty with someone who disagrees with you and does so on an intellectual and factual basis. My choice may be different then yours but at the end of the day its not wrong and for street use I highly doubt it will make much of a difference at all. Im not cheap by any means but I am smart with my money. If there is a substantial benefit to paying twice the price for something I will do it no questions asked. In my opinion and after two days of research reading reviews, opinions, and several articles written by experts there is no substantial proof other then random factless claims that the ebc pads are garbage and that the versa pads are far superior. My conclusion is that for street riding all the major players are fairly close in quality and performance and after I talk to one last source my shop which sells all of the major brands I will make my final decision based on what makes the most sense for me and I am certain the world will not end and my rotors wont fall off.

One last thing. No one likes a know it all who believes they are right and everyone else is an idiot. Most of the time those people actually know very little.

Again thank you all for your input and safe riding!
 

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What just happened here? Argument about brake pads....

I'm using OEM on my rear brakes. The 2018 OEM pads are slightly better than my '12 OEM rear pads. It's noticeably better no doubt. The '12 rear brakes suck (but I've had worse) they may as well not be there. They work. But on my bike there is a long brake pedal travel. Also, I have a hard time modulating it because I can't feel the power in between zero to slowing down hard.
 

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For the back brakes, I liked this pad. It was better than ebc, galfer, or the three other pads I tried. If you search ebay for "VD434-jl" you can find them for around 30.00, or just order from here. I ended up replacign my caliper, but if I had to leave it stock, this is the pad I would use.

https://www.kurveygirl.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=29_40_97&products_id=364
RC, this site says these pads are for ZX bikes. Will these fit my 2012 Ninja 1000? I'm ready to chuck the OEM rear pads. They just suck.
 

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What just happened here? Argument about brake pads....

I'm using OEM on my rear brakes. The 2018 OEM pads are slightly better than my '12 OEM rear pads. It's noticeably better no doubt. The '12 rear brakes suck (but I've had worse) they may as well not be there. They work. But on my bike there is a long brake pedal travel. Also, I have a hard time modulating it because I can't feel the power in between zero to slowing down hard.
Check the return spring on the lever. If it is anything like my H2 SX it is just nuts. It was like stepping on a board. I replaced it with a very light spring and it made it much better.

Most rear levers have adjustment for both travel and angle. I don't know what's on the newer bikes, but it's worth a look.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
57x Where did you get the lighter spring If I can ask? Also do you know if the 2011 has an adjustment for travel? That was the first thing I noticed. I had to press the pedal a long ways down before anything happened at all. It felt like air in the line. After bleeding it was the same.
 

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RC, this site says these pads are for ZX bikes. Will these fit my 2012 Ninja 1000? I'm ready to chuck the OEM rear pads. They just suck.
Oc, yes... We use the same rear pad as the zx10. It's the VD434JL. I've seen the price higher when the ebay ad specified a bike vs just the part number.

My last set was from ebay. If you search the part number, it fits a lot of different bikes. I paid 28.00 for my set. Yes, it's a little rich for our Canadian friend, but still reasonable. They were the best , but it's not like they became amazing or awesome. The leverage ratio is not well suited for feel, or power. If you looked at facts, calling it "wrong" would be correct, but since we deal only in opinion, that will have to do. Even if we stick to facts, either Kawasaki picked a bad ratio, or Brembo is full of ****.

If you put a **** pad in, it makes things worse because it REALLY locks when you step on it. That's where a quality pad helped.

I tried at least six different sets of pads, for this bike, before I researched "correct master cylinder ratios" and ended up with the Brembo conversion. It was easy enough to match the ratios to what Ducati uses. Once I did that, I had a good rear brake. Go figure....science and facts beat opinion. Who would have thought?

The only quality pad I did not try was the cl brand, or Brembo. Both were hard to find. By that point I had given up on the stock system. The stock caliper is a cheap, generic thing and there isnt a master cylinder made that will put it into the "correct" zone.

I know our Canadian friend will **** a brick over this, but it was a whole 12.00 for a 2010 zx10 master cylinder and 98.00 for the caliper. The hanger had to come from Japan. I cashed in the 401k and spent 125.00 for it. Not really cheap, but not that much for a functional rear brake. Less than a slip on exhaust.

I dont think I would do the conversion on an abs bike. I would be afraid the pump would not match the new caliper.
 

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57x Where did you get the lighter spring If I can ask? Also do you know if the 2011 has an adjustment for travel? That was the first thing I noticed. I had to press the pedal a long ways down before anything happened at all. It felt like air in the line. After bleeding it was the same.
I had something just sitting on the shelf. Woodcraft makes a really nice one. You'll have to measure the diameter at the plunger. They make a couple sizes.

https://www.sportbiketrackgear.com/woodcraft-brake-pedal-return-spring/
 

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I put CL in the rear on my 2014. It went from bad to about as bad.

For me, I wouldn't stress changing the master out on the ABS. I could deal issues if it worked sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Ok so as far as im concerned its settled. Im going to change out the return spring for a lighter one and replace the pads all round with HH pads. Someone else commented in another brake pad post on this forum that even with the HH pad in the back it would take work to lock the rear and the HH pad makes an improvement. Yet another person posted here they are using EBC HH pads all the way around and they have noticed a large improvement in the front and a smaller but till very noticeable improvement on the back over stock. To me this seems like the most logical thing to do. Here in Canada the EBC pads run about 50 dollars a set. The versah pads run 160 dollars a set which is just insane. If you order them from eBay with duties, shipping, and brokerage fees they would cost even more. I think this is the route ill go and I will call it a day. Thanks to those that offered constructive advice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
So I just went out and had a closer look at the bike. As I only purchased this bike at the end of last season I hadn't really looked very closely at the rear master cylinder. It looks to me like the previous owner removed the rear return spring already when he installed the lowering blocks on the pegs which i plan to remove and return to stock. I wonder if this setup is causing me issues with pedal trave?? Any thoughts?
 

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So I just went out and had a closer look at the bike. As I only purchased this bike at the end of last season I hadn't really looked very closely at the rear master cylinder. It looks to me like the previous owner removed the rear return spring already when he installed the lowering blocks on the pegs which i plan to remove and return to stock. I wonder if this setup is causing me issues with pedal trave?? Any thoughts?
I doubt it, but you will have to do major pedal adjustments on both sides. Lower the peg, lower the pedal. The geometry doesn't work well with lowering pegs as the pivot point is wrong after lowering. I put them on my H2 SX and hated pedal feel.
 

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For others doing this analysis, look for other pad brand comparisons in product reviews. Some people like the harsh initial bite that EBC HH pads give, I do not. Sure, they are better (different) than OEM, so lots of people putting on great product reviews without experience with other products and brands. I'd look for comments comparing EBC HH to other brands/models, rather than "I tried them and love them" reviews.

I have had people with tons more talent than I have educated me on trail braking. I'll never cast a shadow on their capabilities. Having said that, I just cannot trail brake with a harsh initial bite. To me, and the way I brake, it's just dangerous, flirting with a low side.

Your results may vary......
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
For others doing this analysis, look for other pad brand comparisons in product reviews. Some people like the harsh initial bite that EBC HH pads give, I do not. Sure, they are better (different) than OEM, so lots of people putting on great product reviews without experience with other products and brands. I'd look for comments comparing EBC HH to other brands/models, rather than "I tried them and love them" reviews.

I have had people with tons more talent than I have educated me on trail braking. I'll never cast a shadow on their capabilities. Having said that, I just cannot trail brake with a harsh initial bite. To me, and the way I brake, it's just dangerous, flirting with a low side.

Your results may vary......

You make another great point. I use trail breaking most of the time when riding twisting roads. A hard initial bite would prevent that. Perhaps it is best to leave well enough alone and leave the stock pads in there.

This is becoming a nightmare I didnt anticipate. Perhaps organics are the way to go?
 

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Time out. Before a person brings up modifications and improvements, you have to mention what's already been altered. MrBlackbird, you will have an improvement if you get that brake pedal back to the position it belongs in. With the lowered pegs, and the angle of your pedal, it's not going to work correctly. I'm surprised it works at all. I'm sure the previous owner did that peg lowering?

I would raise it back up to it's normal position before changing anything. I know that would put the pedal in a horrible position, but at least you would have a baseline on how the rear brake is supposed to work .

The way your rear brake is set up is as if we were trying to offer someone suspension tuning advise. I offer them low dollar fixes and top of the line, 5000.00 dollar fixes. When I finally see the bike, we realize the wheels have been replaced with square blocks of wood.

If you return it to stock, you'll probably find what everyone else has found. Not great, or from "bad to not quite as bad" but nothing like you have there.
 
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