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Discussion Starter #1
So I’ve been doing a lot of research on fuel management and I know everyone seems to like the ecu flash but I think I want to go the route of a power commander anyway but the issue is I can’t seem to find any for the 2017+ models. I have a 2018 ninja 1000. Does anyone know if the older power commanders fit? Or are there some out there for the newer model? Even the power commander site doesent have the bike listed.
 

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Lots of posts on this. Only thing that will work for the 2017+ models seem to the Woolich or the RapidBike modules.
 

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I have decided to go with an Woolich based ECU re-flash on my 2019 N1K, but for a while I did consider a Holeshot Supertune Fuel module instead.

I contacted Dale Walker (Holeshot) and he said that his "custom" setup of the Dobeck control unit would be effective on a 2019 model.

Holeshot Performance Products, Inc.
 

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Part of the reason there is no power commander for the newer bikes is because its obsolete. I know most of us remember the days when a power commander was like re-jetting our old carburators. You found a good fuel map, added it to your power commander, and your bike ran better.

That all ended as the euro 3 emissions became a thing....maybe around 2010, or so. Even earlier, to be honest.

The more sophisticated ECU's started having throttle restrictions, rpm restrictions, fuel cut, cylinders that ran at different settings and all kinds of other things that didnt work so well for a rider.

The power commander only allowed a person to change fueling. You could play with timing , but that required another expensive module and the whole concept was too limited to do very much. If your problem was a 100, on a 1-100 scale, what good is solving 20% when a flash looks at all 100%?

A flash based tune is a far better option. The fueling isnt that bad on the bikes. Look at the list of what each is capable of doing.

The list of what a power commander, or fuel controller does is: fuel maps. That's it.

An ecu reflash :
Features available for Kawasaki Z1000SX / Ninja 1000 2017-2019
  • IAP Fuel Maps
  • TPS Fuel Maps
  • Ignition Timing Maps
  • Ignition Dwell Map/s
  • Secondary Throttle Plate (STP) Opening Maps
  • Adjust RPM Limiter
  • Adjust Fan Temperature
  • Quickshifter - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Launch Control - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Pit Lane Limiter - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Race Shift Pattern Sensor Configuration - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Disable Stock O2 Sensor
  • Disable Deceleration Fuel Cut
  • Disable PAIR Valve / AIS
  • Engine Data - View Live Engine Data
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Part of the reason there is no power commander for the newer bikes is because its obsolete. I know most of us remember the days when a power commander was like re-jetting our old carburators. You found a good fuel map, added it to your power commander, and your bike ran better.

That all ended as the euro 3 emissions became a thing....maybe around 2010, or so. Even earlier, to be honest.

The more sophisticated ECU's started having throttle restrictions, rpm restrictions, fuel cut, cylinders that ran at different settings and all kinds of other things that didnt work so well for a rider.

The power commander only allowed a person to change fueling. You could play with timing , but that required another expensive module and the whole concept was too limited to do very much. If your problem was a 100, on a 1-100 scale, what good is solving 20% when a flash looks at all 100%?

A flash based tune is a far better option. The fueling isnt that bad on the bikes. Look at the list of what each is capable of doing.

The list of what a power commander, or fuel controller does is: fuel maps. That's it.

An ecu reflash :
Features available for Kawasaki Z1000SX / Ninja 1000 2017-2019
  • IAP Fuel Maps
  • TPS Fuel Maps
  • Ignition Timing Maps
  • Ignition Dwell Map/s
  • Secondary Throttle Plate (STP) Opening Maps
  • Adjust RPM Limiter
  • Adjust Fan Temperature
  • Quickshifter - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Launch Control - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Pit Lane Limiter - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Race Shift Pattern Sensor Configuration - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Disable Stock O2 Sensor
  • Disable Deceleration Fuel Cut
  • Disable PAIR Valve / AIS
  • Engine Data - View Live Engine Data
While I do agree, I was leaning toward a fuel controller just because I can get a set up that actively adjust ratios for a perfect tube ask the time. To get that on a flash wouldn’t i face to dyno it?
 

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Part of the reason there is no power commander for the newer bikes is because its obsolete. I know most of us remember the days when a power commander was like re-jetting our old carburators. You found a good fuel map, added it to your power commander, and your bike ran better.

That all ended as the euro 3 emissions became a thing....maybe around 2010, or so. Even earlier, to be honest.

The more sophisticated ECU's started having throttle restrictions, rpm restrictions, fuel cut, cylinders that ran at different settings and all kinds of other things that didnt work so well for a rider.

The power commander only allowed a person to change fueling. You could play with timing , but that required another expensive module and the whole concept was too limited to do very much. If your problem was a 100, on a 1-100 scale, what good is solving 20% when a flash looks at all 100%?

A flash based tune is a far better option. The fueling isnt that bad on the bikes. Look at the list of what each is capable of doing.

The list of what a power commander, or fuel controller does is: fuel maps. That's it.

An ecu reflash :
Features available for Kawasaki Z1000SX / Ninja 1000 2017-2019
  • IAP Fuel Maps
  • TPS Fuel Maps
  • Ignition Timing Maps
  • Ignition Dwell Map/s
  • Secondary Throttle Plate (STP) Opening Maps
  • Adjust RPM Limiter
  • Adjust Fan Temperature
  • Quickshifter - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Launch Control - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Pit Lane Limiter - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Race Shift Pattern Sensor Configuration - (Requires Race Tools)
  • Disable Stock O2 Sensor
  • Disable Deceleration Fuel Cut
  • Disable PAIR Valve / AIS
  • Engine Data - View Live Engine Data
RC, doesn't Woolich allow you to do most of the above, if not all?
 
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Woolich software does to do all the things RC has mentioned, and you can buy a kit from them and do it all yourself. But without access to a dyno to verify any changes, you are left with making subjective "seat of pants" decisions on any benefits.

The Holeshot / Dobeck Fuel control provides what the OP was looking for.
 

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I'm worried about the software. I read the list and it says I can advance, or RETARD the timing. I feel very offended at that. I felt better after I hugged my MASTER cylinder. I'm just glad the ninja doesnt have a slave cylinder, or I would have to sell it.

That woolich stuff let's you do all that. Ivan does things differently. He has his own software and it's much more powerful....but how cool would it be to have tuning ability at your kitchen table? That woolich kit is cool. If I didnt have two bikes on Ivan's list, I would have probably worn out a set of cables just screwing around.

When ivan developed the c14 flash, I had a chance to try some early versions. I remember calling him and telling him how good the "fueling" was...so much better than stock....the bike was so much..........he stopped me right there and told me I needed to send the ecu back. Why?" I asked?....its really good..so much....."

That's when he told me the fueling was 100% stock. He had fixed all the " other " things that were wrong. Sure, it was even better with proper fueling, but getting rid of fuel cut and the timing issues was huge. Way more important than the exact fueling. Shortly after that, I removed the power comander. I dont regret buying it as it helped, but it's not even in the same league as a flash.

If you go way back, 2011-2012 ish..., the Power Comander and the ninja was a big deal. There was a tune where we removed the secondary throttle plates. Back then, no one was able to control them. At low rpm , they were 60-70% closed. They would also close at high rpm and it restricted the bike like crazy. That tune helped, but it was very abrupt. Small throttle openings were not great. That cost 350.00. You also needed a 75.00 fuel cut eliminator as well.

Ivan's latest flash eliminated all of that. We had to re-install the throttle plates, but it's far superior to anything we ever had back then.
 

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I'm worried about the software. I read the list and it says I can advance, or RETARD the timing. I feel very offended at that. I felt better after I hugged my MASTER cylinder. I'm just glad the ninja doesnt have a slave cylinder, or I would have to sell it.
Sorry to break the news to you RC, but the N1K does have SLAVE cylinders.

Three of them in fact. Two at the front & one at the back. They are sometimes called "brake calipers" but they are really just slave cylinders.

Now that you have committed to sell your N1K, what bike will you be getting as a replacement ??
 

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In light of this recent development, I will consult clergy, and it's a conversation we will have. A long , overdue conversation. Isnt that what they say when they have not really dont anything wrong, and/or dont want to change their behavior?

I may have to switch to this: This looks pretty safe, other than the tire and seat color.
29292
You guys would have laughed at me when I installed my Ivans fce. Back in the day, we had to have these to eliminate fuel cut....the device would still work on the new machines, or a car.....hum....

There were some fairly specific instructions. Wires had to be cut and connectors added. That way when you eliminated it, like ive done now, you left some nice bullet connectors behind. This set up tucks under the rear cowl. If you didnt know it was there, you would have no idea the bike had one.

I had just bought a new set of gas perm contact lenses. They tint these lenses to have them blend in. So, Mr Mechanic installs the fce.

It works really well, but I made one small error. Instead of tying it into the Back/red, I tied it into the black/yellow.....something like that.

A few months later, I notice my bike will only start in Neutral and the kickstand switch is dead. Not dead, I suppose, as it still works. It ohms out as ok, but doesnt do anything. The bike stays running if you throw the kickstand down. I pull out the manual...this was Murph style...I couldnt sleep. It was driving me insane. The manual confirmed my worst fears...bad ecu. I verified the test, 3 times, just to be sure..bad ecu.

I did my best to sleep, but it was no use. I remembered rule 1 with this bike. This bike is reliable. For 99.871% of the time, it only breaks after the owner has done something stupid, neglectful, silly, or experimenting. I got out of bed and found the instructions for the fce. I squinted (no contacts on) and removed the rear cowl. My wiring mistake was instantly revealed. I fixed the issue, and the bad ecu was now ok.

As ashamed as I was, I enjoy making people laugh, so I posted the experience on rider forum. Within 2 hours, I had pm's from 2 guys who did the same thing. I dint feel quite as stupid.

Thats another reason this flashing is so cool. I know ecu mistakes happen, but this system has pretty much been idiot proofed, or you are having someone experienced do the work.
 

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<< snip >>
I did my best to sleep, but it was no use. I remembered rule 1 with this bike. This bike is reliable.

For 99.871% of the time, it only breaks after the owner has done something stupid, neglectful, silly, or experimental. I got out of bed and found the instructions for the fce. I squinted (no contacts on) and removed the rear cowl. My wiring mistake was instantly revealed. I fixed the issue, and the bad ecu was now ok.
This is probably the most insightful comment that I've read on this forum so far. The first place to start when diagnosing a problem, is the last thing the owner did to the bike.
 

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Ivan does things differently. He has his own software and it's much more powerful...

When ivan developed the c14 flash...

If you go way back, 2011-2012 ish..., At low rpm , they were 60-70% closed. Small throttle openings were not great.
Ivan's latest flash eliminated all of that....

Ivan does this... BLAH BLAH BLAH Ivan....is better... BLAH BLAH BLAH... Ivan BLAH BLAH.
And he still has NO FLASH AT ALL for the Ninja 1000.
🙄
<Yawn>

Such a broken record.
 

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Ivan does this... BLAH BLAH BLAH Ivan....is better... BLAH BLAH BLAH... Ivan BLAH BLAH.
And he still has NO FLASH AT ALL for the Ninja 1000.
🙄
<Yawn>

Such a broken record.
He will have one, and when he does he will sell 30 for every one your guys ever flashed. There will be lines, at his front door, to flash over the previous work. People like you dont know any better, but many want quality. Work thats been tested and not guessed at, or skipped over.

Your guys were flashing ecu's wirhout having bikes in their possession and cutting open customer ecu,'s. Thats something to be proud of, i suppose?
 

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He will have one, and when he does he will sell 30 for every one your guys ever flashed. There will be lines, at his front door, to flash over the previous work.
Ooooh! So Exciting!

One problem: Nobody cares.

🙄

Except you! But when and if that happens, at least you'll finally be able to get your 8-yr old N1K flashed. BTW, the C14 went down in flames. Complete failure. Never got the Police contracts it was hoping for. Dealers can't give 'em away. But keep on riding it in your garage RC!

😜

There is NO WAY anyone will spend money to have their bike Re-flashed by Ivan. Also, the N1K is a moving target. So by the time he figures it out, there will be a new ECU from Kawi. And since according to you, he always buys the bikes he flashes, that could become very expensive.

Ivan is 'YOUR guy'. I don't have any 'Guys'. You have an enormous amount of your ego tied up with Ivan, to the point where you are Blind to any other Tuners . Woolich is the one who really owns this Market. And they have a Tune for almost every bike. Makes you wonder how they do it! Besides, isn't Ivan getting ready to retire?
 

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does the Woodlich come with any custom tune or am I all on my own? I've called around to a couple of dyno shops here in SoCal and they all wanted between $5-600 for a tuning "session", which to me seems more than I'd really want to pay considering I'd already have to pay $500 for the tuner module itself.

I currently have a PCV sitting in it's box for the last year and I finally got some Akra headers and I don't know if I should bother installing it or go with a true ECU tune. Besides just installing the PCV, Ivan's is the cost effect route but wouldn't mind paying a bit extra if I had some tuning functionality to myself, albeit I'd like at least pre-baked tune for the Akra headers to start off of. I have a 2010 Z1000, it's a pretty dumb bike electronics wise, doesn't even have an O2 sensor.

Also, with Ivan's tune, when he disables the PAIR solenoid, do I still need to buy the block off plates?
 

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does the Woodlich come with any custom tune or am I all on my own? I've called around to a couple of dyno shops here in SoCal and they all wanted between $5-600 for a tuning "session", which to me seems more than I'd really want to pay considering I'd already have to pay $500 for the tuner module itself.

I currently have a PCV sitting in it's box for the last year and I finally got some Akra headers and I don't know if I should bother installing it or go with a true ECU tune. Besides just installing the PCV, Ivan's is the cost effect route but wouldn't mind paying a bit extra if I had some tuning functionality to myself, albeit I'd like at least pre-baked tune for the Akra headers to start off of. I have a 2010 Z1000, it's a pretty dumb bike electronics wise, doesn't even have an O2 sensor.

Also, with Ivan's tune, when he disables the PAIR solenoid, do I still need to buy the block off plates?
What year is your bike? If it is pre-2017 and you already have the PCV, then you should be able to download ready maps from various sites. I am sure a couple of people here may also be willing to share their PCV maps with you.
 

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Also, with Ivan's tune, when he disables the PAIR solenoid, do I still need to buy the block off plates?
No need to install the block off plates with his latest version.
 

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The woolich flash and it having Ninja 1000 settings ...maybe. If someone has tuned one, that map might end up in their map share system. It could be very possible to buy cables and the kit and be able to access a tune that someone else has already developed. If you e mail them, they should be able to tell you. Odds are you can access the same flash Guhl, or 2 wheel dyno works would use in your bike. They both flashed ECU's without ever seeing a bike. That flash had to come from somewhere. I believe Vcyclenut also flashes his own machines and doesnt use customer bikes or ECU's in development. Class vs no class.

Yes Motoman, Ivan buys the bikes hes going to flash. It is expensive, but that let's him spend the time necessary to do excellent work rather than just getting buy, or beating the **** out of his customers bikes, on a dyno. He also buys the individual ECU's. He wont cut a customers ecu, like your guys do. Some "identical" bikes have 4 or 5 different ecu's.

The concours 14 has been in production from late 2007-2019. That's not bad for a bike that was never supposed to be imported into the usa. It would also suggest there might have been a few more sold, other than mine. The police contract? Seriously? They did , and still do have some c14 police bikes.

Excellent commercial success?

 

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Roland:

I already told you that 2WDW does not cut into the N1K ECU. But you don't want to admit that.

I already told you that these are not 'My Guys'. But you can't seem to comprehend that.

I already told you that even though you believe Ivan is the best tuner (and DEFINITELY 'Your Guy') he doesn't have one for the 2017+ N1K. So is the 'best tune' the one that doesn't exist? I think not.

Talking to you is a complete waste of time.
 
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