[Motorazr]

Looking online across the USA, I see very few 1000SX's for sale. There are, however, some H2 SE's and a bunch of ZX-10R's listed for sale. Why do YOU think that is?

• The ZX-10R has vastly outsold the 1000SX so there are more used units for sale?
• The ZX-10R was sold to a younger, less stable owner population leading to higher turnover?
• 1000SX owners love their bikes and rarely sell or upgrade?
• Used 1000SX's are sold more by word-of-mouth than thru being listed for sale online?

There is a 2021 1000SX for sale locally with only 1,900 miles on it but the owner wants $14.5k. Having just spent $11k on a new bike six weeks ago, it wouldn't be a smart move for me to drop another $14k on a second bike right now. It's not really in the cards for me to sell a new bike that I'm six-weeks into getting set up as perfectly as possible for myself (though the '21 MT-09 is in very high demand with all the media hype).

I rode a bunch of bikes at IMS a few weeks ago. Some I liked, some I didn't. Only ONE model made me pause with the thought that it felt really amazing - the 2021 Ninja 1000SX. It honestly feels like it was custom-built for me personally. I've ridden a great many motorcycles over four decades and I can count on the fingers of one hand the times that I've been so impressed. I like my 2021 Yamaha MT-09 very much and it suits the kind of local, short-hop riding that I do but the 1000SX is a completely different class of motorcycle.

 

[Volfy]

Your 2021 MT-09 was $11k?

 

[Motorazr]

Your 2021 MT-09 was $11k?

US$9,399 plus freight, tax, title, and dealer fees = US$11,000 which represents a small discount from what the dealer originally wanted. The 2021 MT-09 SP has a MSRP of US$10,999 which would have been more like $14k total. Despite the SP being well worth the extra $1,600, SP models are virtually impossible to find for sale in North America. There are SP buyers who have been waiting on deposits since May. I felt extremely fortunate to locally find an available base model in the color I wanted (matte black).

 

[rcannon409]

I don't know what the sales figures really are. They usually don't talk about that, but Kawasaki , for 2021 had the zx10, and a zx10abs. The krt stickered zx10 was also offered in abs and non abs versions. There was also the zx10rr.

The Ninja 1000sx has one black version despite several color options being available, worldwide.

Based on the idea that they offer 5 versions, you would have to guess the zx10 sales are much more impressive.

 

[Squidlius]

In my worthless opinion: I think the two target groups are the younger adrenaline crowd (ZX10) and the older adrenaline crowd (N1K). The ZX10's purpose is clearly obvious, the N1K's not so much so. It's in a bit of no-man's land. Not all the way sportbike and not all the way sport-tourer. Again, in my worthless opinion, I think the ideal N1K owner is a seasoned hypersport rider who is tired of touring on his ZX10 but is nowhere near ready for an FJR1300, Connie 1400GTR or equivalent sport-tourer. I believe the market for ZX10s is small but also think the market for N1Ks might be smaller? They are in a niche market and I think more riders who buy N1Ks are making better choices than riders who think they want a ZX10.

 

[Energydrinkvape]

Just get both. I did. They're both great bikes. You guys seem pretty smart. Use your 401k since you can withdraw from it at 60.

 

[jjscsix]

In my worthless opinion: I think the two target groups are the younger adrenaline crowd (ZX10) and the older adrenaline crowd (N1K). The ZX10's purpose is clearly obvious, the N1K's not so much so. It's in a bit of no-man's land. Not all the way sportbike and not all the way sport-tourer. Again, in my worthless opinion, I think the ideal N1K owner is a seasoned hypersport rider who is tired of touring on his ZX10 but is nowhere near ready for an FJR1300, Connie 1400GTR or equivalent sport-tourer. I believe the market for ZX10s is small but also think the market for N1Ks might be smaller? They are in a niche market and I think more riders who buy N1Ks are making better choices than riders who think they want a ZX10.

I think you are right, but I’m glad to be in a position to own one of each. I ride all three of my bikes about equal miles a year, but the FJR gets as many miles even though I don’t ride it as often because I take a long trip on it every year.

 

[Motorazr]

Jim
2020 Kawasaki 1000SX, 2017 FJR1300ES, 2018 Honda CBR1000rr

With a Yamaha tourer, a Honda supersport, and a Kawasaki in the middle, what about your 2020 1000SX do you like the most and like the least (or even dislike)?

 

[jjscsix]

With a Yamaha tourer, a Honda supersport, and a Kawasaki in the middle, what about your 2020 1000SX do you like the most and like the least (or even dislike)?

What I like the least is that the ride by wire throttle, the clutch, and the shifter all feel too light and disconnected. They are harder to modulate because they have no feel to them. You get use to it, but it’s always there.

I also wish the power band was not so flat. It has great acceleration at any speed and in any gear. But I like Sport bikes (and cars) to keep pulling harder up near redline. The SX doesn’t really get you anything running it past 8,000 or so RPMs.

What I like the best is the nimble handling. I have great “technical” roads that I ride several times a week. The SX is stable when it needs to be, but is also simple to throw into tight corners and change your line mid turn If needed.

I want to stress that my dislikes are not enough to dampen my love for the bike. It’s a GREAT bike at what it’s designed for.

 

[Squidlius]

What I like the least is that the ride by wire throttle, the clutch, and the shifter all feel too light and disconnected. They are harder to modulate because they have no feel to them. You get use to it, but it’s always there.

I also wish the power band was not so flat. It has great acceleration at any speed and in any gear. But I like Sport bikes (and cars) to keep pulling harder up near redline. The SX doesn’t really get you anything running it past 8,000 or so RPMs.

What I like the best is the nimble handling. I have great “technical” roads that I ride several times a week. The SX is stable when it needs to be, but is also simple to throw into tight corners and change your line mid turn If needed.

I want to stress that my dislikes are not enough to dampen my love for the bike. It’s a GREAT bike at what it’s designed for.

It is most unfortunate that no one has come up with a way to fix the 2020+ N1Ks. I don't remember if you uncorked your previous N1K and a hate to sound like a broken record but with a full exhaust and the ECU flashed, it increases power throughout the entire powerband and they pull much harder (the way an open class almost sportbike should) all the way to the rev limiter. It'll never feel like your CBR but they do get a LOT better once you let them breathe.

 

[57x]

What I like the least is that the ride by wire throttle, the clutch, and the shifter all feel too light and disconnected. They are harder to modulate because they have no feel to them. You get use to it, but it’s always there.

I also wish the power band was not so flat. It has great acceleration at any speed and in any gear. But I like Sport bikes (and cars) to keep pulling harder up near redline. The SX doesn’t really get you anything running it past 8,000 or so RPMs.

What I like the best is the nimble handling. I have great “technical” roads that I ride several times a week. The SX is stable when it needs to be, but is also simple to throw into tight corners and change your line mid turn If needed.

I want to stress that my dislikes are not enough to dampen my love for the bike. It’s a GREAT bike at what it’s designed for.

Clearly we need another local ride since I missed the last one. I'm yet to find a technical road that you don't have to go 110 MPH to have any fun here in Houston. I went to Yankee Tavern last weekend. It was fun, but hate the triple digit riding all the people in Houston want to do so they can lean a bike.

 

[jjscsix]

It is most unfortunate that no one has come up with a way to fix the 2020+ N1Ks. I don't remember if you uncorked your previous N1K and a hate to sound like a broken record but with a full exhaust and the ECU flashed, it increases power throughout the entire powerband and they pull much harder (the way an open class almost sportbike should) all the way to the rev limiter. It'll never feel like your CBR but they do get a LOT better once you let them breathe.

My 2011 I put a full Akra on and PowerCommander. I was at 141 hp at the rear wheel.

 

[jjscsix]

Clearly we need another local ride since I missed the last one. I'm yet to find a technical road that you don't have to go 110 MPH to have any fun here in Houston. I went to Yankee Tavern last weekend. It was fun, but hate the triple digit riding all the people in Houston want to do so they can lean a bike.

Well, local for me is the Twisted Sisters! I’m assuming you know that I’m not in Houston anymore.

 

[Squidlius]

Well, local for me is the Twisted Sisters! I’m assuming you know that I’m not in Houston anymore.

When did you move and how close to the twisties are you now?

 

[Energydrinkvape]

Based on YouTube and CRT videos, I assume Houston is full of roll races on the highway with liter bikes/Busas, or dirt bike/quad/groms terrorizing the city

 

[57x]

Based on YouTube and CRT videos, I assume Houston is full of roll races on the highway with liter bikes/Busas, or dirt bike/quad/groms terrorizing the city

Yep

Well, local for me is the Twisted Sisters! I’m assuming you know that I’m not in Houston anymore.

I must have missed that one ...... I'm quite jealous

 

[Motorazr]

I also wish the power band was not so flat. It has great acceleration at any speed and in any gear. But I like Sport bikes (and cars) to keep pulling harder up near redline. The SX doesn’t really get you anything running it past 8,000 or so RPMs.

Thanks for your feedback. My limited riding of the 1000SX didn't include reving the engine out past 8,000rpm so I didn't know that it feels flat on top. I haven't seen any dyno charts for the 2020+ gen-3 bike either but, looking at a dyno chart for the 2014-2019 gen-2 1000SX, I can see torque flatten after 7,500rpm and hp rolls off after 9,000rpm:

The flat top-end of the gen-2 Vstrom 1000 is what killed the riding experience for me - just too flat and dull above 7,000rpm. It seems likely though that the 1000SX isn't as bad in that regard as my 2014 Vstrom 1000 was. Below is a horsepower comparison of the 2015 Versys 1000 vs 2014 Vstrom 1000 vs 2015 FJ-09 (from Rider Magazine, May 08, 2015):

And here is the torque comparison of the Versys 1000, Vstrom 1000, and FJ-09:

So where the Vstrom 1000 looks weak on the top-end compared to the retuned Versys 1000, the Suzuki would really look bad on a dyno compared against the full-power 1000SX.

 

[Squidlius]

Everything is always relative and it's important to be able to keep things in perspective for one personally. For some the 1000SX is the most powerful (and torque rich) bike they've ever owned and for others it might be one of the most anemic 1043cc sporting mills. A full exhaust and the ECU flash definitely make it respectable for the hardened hooligans.

 

[rcannon409]

As the guy showed us on the 2020 reflash thread, the stock bike is limited, in 3rd gear, to 107hp. That's just like our old bikes. Unless those "limiters" were removed, you didn't get full throttle until it was in 4th, 5th, or 6th.

Pulling the secondary butterflies was part of the power limiting, but that didn't fix the timing "restriction" or the other things that happened when the rpm went into the restriction zone.

 

[Squidlius]

Thanks for your feedback. My limited riding of the 1000SX didn't include reving the engine out past 8,000rpm so I didn't know that it feels flat on top. I haven't seen any dyno charts for the 2020+ gen-3 bike either but, looking at a dyno chart for the 2014-2019 gen-2 1000SX, I can see torque flatten after 7,500rpm and hp rolls off after 9,000rpm:

View attachment 32806

The flat top-end of the gen-2 Vstrom 1000 is what killed the riding experience for me - just too flat and dull above 7,000rpm. It seems likely though that the 1000SX isn't as bad in that regard as my 2014 Vstrom 1000 was. Below is a horsepower comparison of the 2015 Versys 1000 vs 2014 Vstrom 1000 vs 2015 FJ-09 (from Rider Magazine, May 08, 2015):

View attachment 32807

And here is the torque comparison of the Versys 1000, Vstrom 1000, and FJ-09:

View attachment 32808

So where the Vstrom 1000 looks weak on the top-end compared to the retuned Versys 1000, the Suzuki would really look bad on a dyno compared against the full-power 1000SX.

Also keep in mind you're comparing a twin with a triple and an inline 4 which isn't apples to apples.