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$1.6k for valves adjustment, oil and sparks change in SF

6K views 30 replies 18 participants last post by  rcannon409 
#1 ·
Hi guys,

I have 2014 1k Kawasaki ninja and I live in SF.
$1,600 sounds a lot.

What do you think?
 
#2 ·
That is a lot, but I'm not sure what you are supposed to do about it. The valve adjustment is a big job. Did they quote you for a "major service" where they also lubricate the steering head and suspension linkage?
 
#4 ·
I would just do the entire job myself but, if I were you, I'd at least pull off as much plastic as possible, keep it safe at home, and not pay someone $120/hour to pull it off and put it back on again. It's not like they have a nice, clean table in the shop where they're going to lay out all your fairing pieces on a towel, you know?.
 
#5 ·
We need more info. Something tells me this isn't for a valve adjust, by itself I don't know if a Kawasaki dealer would agree to do just a valve adjust? My thought is he got a price for the 16,000 mile maintenance?

If he needs a valve adjustment, he has to have at least 16,000 miles on the bike. Isnt that the first scheduled valve check...USA bikes? If so, that maintenance also includes an air filter swap, coolant, fuel filter, brake fluid, and steering head bearing service.
 
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#7 ·
I’ve never paid more than 800-900 for a full service that includes valves. That includes 1600 BMWs and a Ducati. The truth is I have not had a single valve out of spec on any bike I’ve owned in the past 16 years
 
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#10 ·
This is partly why I may never get valves checked again. Having had it done 3 times on 2 N1ks ($800-$1100) and never had a valve out of spec I'll wait for some other sign that things need to come apart before having it done. Reliable Japanese bikes have really hurt the service industry I think. There used to be at least 3 independent shops that I could go to for service and now there are none. Even our big dealership that used to have 3-4 mechanics now has 1 that knows what he's doing + another that does mostly tires and oil changes. They also can't get stock and their showroom floor is half empty. They also told me that if it wasn't for selling quads & jet skis as well they'd be out of business. It's a tough time for motorcycle shops and it kind of feels like a downward spiral.
 
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#12 ·
Based on what I have read most N1K bikes don't have any valves out of specification at the first service interval of 16,000 miles. If you don't ride your bike too hard you are probably fine to skip the first inspection.

I stripped my bike down of all the fairings and hauled it to the shop. For 500 bucks they did the valve inspection and throttle body synchronization. I had skipped the first interval at 16,000. At 33,000 miles mine had four exhaust valves and one intake that needed new shims, and those were not out by much. Bike runs like new.
 
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#25 ·
Maybe this is ignorance on my part, but if they are out of spec, isnt the risk simply loss of a bit of valve lift & duration? Am I missing something? Seams like the inspection is close to what the resulting repair would be if they were run until they noticeably out of spec. For $2400.00, (@15k and 30k), seams like were close to buying a new head......
 
#14 ·
This is San Francisco we're talking about. One of the top 5 most expensive cities in the country. The shop rates there average around $150/hour so it sounds reasonable to me. Best case scenario is the valves are within spec and all OP needs is an oil change and new spark plugs and the bill would be around $1,200.
 
#15 ·
Thank you very much for the replies.
1. SF was the most expensive city for 14 years, until last month NYC took the first place. The median rent for 1 BD here is $2.8k. (it's madness).
2. The store gave me an updated range: between $1.2k to $1.4k. Hourly rate is $150.
3. If you will take a look at the service manual, there are other things that make this service expensive as well:
  • Fuel filter - replace
  • Fuel hose - replace
  • Coolant, water hose and O-ring - replace
  • Engine oil (*C) and oil filter - replace
  • Brake fluid (front and rear) - replace

** Steering stem bearing: the store told me they will not do
* Chassis parts: need to check if they will do.

After reading your comments, I understand that ~1.3k is a normal price for this service and the location.

I usually doing all of the other services by myself: (chain, brakes, tires etc.).
It's OK to let the professionals do the Valve clearance, as this require time, energy and experience.
My current mileage is 48k, the previous owner checked the Valve clearance when the moto had 16K.

Thanks for the replies.
 
#16 ·
Call up Evolution Motorcycles in San Jose. Schedule an appointment and ride it down the night before. Take CalTrain home. Uber to the station will be a few bucks. Take the train back down the next day and ride it home. Frank is good people! It will be way cheaper.

You can stop at Alice's both ways in the ride. It's well worth the detour.
 
#21 ·
That’s a lot of $$. I had mine done for about $500 a few years ago at East Bay Motorsports. They quoted me something like $750 for an adjustment, but they were all in spec so they didn’t even have to pull the cams. They tried to charge me the whole amount and I argued that without the cams coming out, their workload was less than 1/2 compared to an actual adjustment. The thing I didn’t like is that they didn’t give me measurements, only that they were “in spec”, so no trends are available to compare on later checks.

essentially I agree with other poster - I think that these modern overhead cam valves pretty much stay in spec forever unless you really thrash them, like taking them to the track.
 
#23 ·
I'm anxious to see the Bimota, and get a ride report on it.

I had never seen one before and we ended up in Santa Monica. Three of them, parked in a row as well as two Yamaha Rz500's. I almost wiped my eyes to be sure I wasn't seeing things.
 
#27 ·
Jefferson......you are correct. If we could guarantee that your description, or thought was happening, this would be a waste of time,and money, there would be very little reason to check. BFD comes to mind...


What really happens is the clearance decreases. If this clearance gets to zero, the valve won't close.

The valve,and the cam are basically wear proof, under normal conditions. However, the valve seat is not. If things go south, the valve can seat, into it's seat, just a little more than it did when it left the factory. Maybe the seat wasn't seated properly? Maybe the factory set the head tithe tight side of the measurement? All kinds of "what if".

If the clearance goes to zero, or beyond zero, the valve can't properly close. It would never touch the seat. Your compression is gone. This also burns the valve and seat as it's letting the combustion process by. It doesn't take long to where the damage is severe. You have to rebuild the head. We have to check it,and use a thinner shim,before this can happen.

Measuring valves is not easy, although it sounds like it would be.. It's not like cutting a 2x4. The demensions you are working with is about like taking a few sheets of copy paper The thickness of these 2 paper sheets is similar to your allowable clearance. You measure to stay within this range. Metal temperature can influence the measurement. How tight you close your calipers. How hard you push your feeler gauge...this all factors in.

So, yes, you HAVE to check this to know , for sure, that this isn't happening. But, you can't make a mistake.

I've seen way more Japanese heads damaged from mistakes than I have from the wear process.

I THINK a person could ride the bike 300,000 miles and not have this become a factor. Sure, the valve might not be in range, but it's been a long time since I heard of a Japanese street bike going to zero.
 
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#28 ·
Jefferson......you are correct. If we could guarantee that your description, or thought was happening, this would be a waste of time,and money, there would be very little reason to check. BFD comes to mind...


What really happens is the clearance decreases. If this clearance gets to zero, the valve won't close.

The valve,and the cam are basically wear proof, under normal conditions. However, the valve seat is not. If things go south, the valve can seat, into it's seat, just a little more than it did when it left the factory. Maybe the seat wasn't seated properly? Maybe the factory set the head tithe tight side of the measurement? All kinds of "what if".

If the clearance goes to zero, or beyond zero, the valve can't properly close. It would never touch the seat. Your compression is gone. This also burns the valve and seat as it's letting the combustion process by. It doesn't take long to where the damage is severe. You have to rebuild the head. We have to check it,and use a thinner shim,before this can happen.

Measuring valves is not easy, although it sounds like it would be.. It's not like cutting a 2x4. The demensions you are working with is about like taking a few sheets of copy paper The thickness of these 2 paper sheets is similar to your allowable clearance. You measure to stay within this range. Metal temperature can influence the measurement. How tight you close your calipers. How hard you push your feeler gauge...this all factors in.

So, yes, you HAVE to check this to know , for sure, that this isn't happening. But, you can't make a mistake.

I've seen way more Japanese heads damaged from mistakes than I have from the wear process.

I THINK a person could ride the bike 300,000 miles and not have this become a factor. Sure, the valve might not be in range, but it's been a long time since I heard of a Japanese street bike going to zero.
If the bike is running fine I'm not planning to mess with it until 32k. At that point, assuming I can find a shop I trust in my area, I'll get them checked. I'm also very unlikely to change plugs every 7500. I'm thinking every other oil change should be fine for that, unless you folks can think of a compelling reason otherwise. I've never heard of a iridium plug loosing an electrodinto the bore, but maybe I'm wrong?
 
#29 ·
I also can't help but wonder how much of this maintenance list might be emissions based? If someone told me the plugs fit in that category, I would believe them.

I know of one specific Suzuki, a two stroke, that would damage spark plugs. Other than that, not so much. I have not heard of it happening on a Japanese street bike. If a person is not going to maintain something, that's a good place to skip.
 
#30 ·
I think it's a combination of things. Warranty violations may also be one. Being unable to prove plugs were changed on schedule could be problematic if a catastrophic failure mechanically "gaps" them. I suspect though this is simply to support their dealer network. A reliable, low maitanance bike does not have much revenue potential for dealers. Until my mileage /driveability starts to suffer, I'm not too worried about the plugs or the valves.
 
#31 ·
These plugs are pre gapped. You don't gap them as they are good to go, right out of the package. The plug is used by some fairly popular automobiles. Nissan and Subaru come to mind. It isn't a motorcycle specific plug.

It's popular enough to where Auto Zone will have them in stock. Half the price Kawasaki wants for them, too.

One argument I would make for changing them is because motorcycles often times don't see car like mileages. If a plug stays in an engine for many years, they can be difficult to remove. Still, this one is fairly well sealed. I don't think corrosion is much of a factor.

Lots of ideas as to why, but none make much sense.
 
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