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Pocket Rocket!!!

2K views 32 replies 10 participants last post by  BAZININJA 
#1 ·
Here's what all the Ninjette folks are excited about!





Can't wait to ride one!!! It could be my next bike!
 
#2 ·
I love that bike, too. Japan has made several amazing "small" bikes but they never made it to the usa.

You have to be the perfect customer for this bike. Look at the quality level of this bike. The very base 2019 zx6 is selling for 9999.00. With that in mind, how much would you pay for a 250? I hope we get the chance to find out. Especially if honda, yamaha and Suzuki build one, too.
 
#3 ·
I love that bike, too. Japan has made several amazing "small" bikes but they never made it to the usa.

You have to be the perfect customer for this bike. Look at the quality level of this bike. The very base 2019 zx6 is selling for 9999.00. With that in mind, how much would you pay for a 250? I hope we get the chance to find out. Especially if honda, yamaha and Suzuki build one, too.

Hey, if it's under $10K and fits me, I'm in!!! But I can wait a year or two and save up. And that'll give the aftermarket a chance to come up with a touring windscreen and a way to mount bags!:D

I wonder what the seating position is like? I hope it's similar to the N1K and my N300, rather than 'Busa-esque. I did have to lower the pegs on my N300, though.

I'm on a mission to get it to the States! My local bike shop says that the first one they get in will have my name on it!!!
 
#6 ·
I'd never want to do any serious riding on a bike I outweigh so guess I have to watch my weight gains.
 
#8 ·
There's been several bikes like that small Ninja but they never make it to the states. Like the CBR300RR. It's a 250 in the Japanese market.



The makers know that nobody in the states is going to buy a $8K or $9K 300. Except for the .0001% freaks who would appreciate these bikes, like me.
 
#10 ·
The makers know that nobody in the states is going to buy a $8K or $9K 300. Except for the .0001% freaks who would appreciate these bikes, like me.

And me! So what are we waiting for? I'm not social media savvy enough to know how to do it, so how do you start a petition or whatever to convince Kawi that there's a viable market for the ZX25R in the States?
 
#11 ·
Problem with super sport 250's in the US market has always been price. Rumor has it, this bike will be priced HIGHER than the Ninja 400. So maybe $6k? Damn isn't someone selling a 2017 N1k with under 3k miles for $7k? The $6k-$7k market segment is FULL of great competitors, including used motorcycles with low miles.

My bet: It will sell like hotcakes for the first 6 months. Then after every trackday addict gets theirs, sales will die off.

Young riders, at least in my area, they worship liter bikes. They're goal, besides getting laid, is to someday own a liter bike. A 600 Super Sport is just an entry level bike they plan to learn on then move on to bigger bikes.
 
#15 ·
Bazininja, have you test ridden the Ninja 400? How about the Ninja 650?

Those two above are really good streetbikes. They are both very comfortable sport bikes with similar ergos to the N1k. Especially the N400, which is low, with a short reach to the bars, yet it doesn't feel like nor look too much like a small bike. I'm 5'8" tall with 31 inch inseam, about 180 lbs. wet, I test rode the N400 and it was amazingly comfortable & capable even on the highway. Great wind protection too. It's not slow either...it felt fast to me, with a nice midrange, AND a nice top end pull. Very lightweight...around 360 lbs. wet. Very easy to manage especially at low speeds. The N650 should be even better power wise, and according to testers, it doesn't lack for power. It even has an adjustable windscreen (you need to unbolt it first to move in either of two positions). I believe they updated these bikes with full LED lights now as well. If the ZX25R is what I think it is, it's a super sport in the same vein as the ZX6R. That means sporty riding position. And if 57x is right and it comes in around $10k or even close to $10k, good luck with selling it here. Even if it comes in at say, $8.5k.....better to just get the ZX6R without the ABS for $9,999 MSRP. The difference in monthly payments is $20/month. Most people will go for the 636.
 
#16 ·
Bazininja, have you test ridden the Ninja 400? How about the Ninja 650?

Those two above are really good streetbikes. They are both very comfortable sport bikes with similar ergos to the N1k. Especially the N400, which is low, with a short reach to the bars, yet it doesn't feel like nor look too much like a small bike. I'm 5'8" tall with 31 inch inseam, about 180 lbs. wet, I test rode the N400 and it was amazingly comfortable & capable even on the highway. Great wind protection too. It's not slow either...it felt fast to me, with a nice midrange, AND a nice top end pull. Very lightweight...around 360 lbs. wet. Very easy to manage especially at low speeds. The N650 should be even better power wise, and according to testers, it doesn't lack for power. It even has an adjustable windscreen (you need to unbolt it first to move in either of two positions). I believe they updated these bikes with full LED lights now as well. If the ZX25R is what I think it is, it's a super sport in the same vein as the ZX6R. That means sporty riding position. And if 57x is right and it comes in around $10k or even close to $10k, good luck with selling it here. Even if it comes in at say, $8.5k.....better to just get the ZX6R without the ABS for $9,999 MSRP. The difference in monthly payments is $20/month. Most people will go for the 636.

My 2017 N300 ABS KRT suits me well, it really does. It was sitting at my local dealer with my name on it after my N1K was totaled. I still had replacement cost coverage by mere days, but the N300's been a great choice! I salvaged the GPS, gear indicator, and heated gear wiring from my N1K. I added three Givi bags, a touring windscreen, BreakAway throttle lock (I salvaged the MCCruise electronic cruise from the N1K as well, but it was unlikely to fit in the N300 because of the lack of space), custom seat, Eastern Beaver Power Center 8, MFW Vario lowered footpegs (that was a surprise, lemme tell ya!) and an Akra slip-on (because the footpegs weren't enough on the right side!). The crappy IRC's didn't last longer either and were replaced by Q3+s and my ridin' buddies made some cool graphics for it. I commute, tour, and play in the twisties with it. The only thing I really miss is the instant power to get away from idiots, as well as make on-ramps and windy hilly conditions better. I'm 5'2" with a 28" inseam, and about 140lbs ATGATT. While I'm capable of handling bigger bikes (my Honda NT700V was tall and top heavy, too), I'm really not interested in doing it any more unless I have to, such as riding dual sports for demos at MC classes. Another reason I ended up with a 300 instead of a 400 is because last August there were no baggage options or touring windscreens for the 400. I might've considered a 650, but my dealer didn't have any green ones on hand, but also because I wanted to use my insurance money to eliminate bike debt by paying off the balance on the N1K and buying another bike outright. Insurance was a factor as well because the crash was deemed my fault so my insurance went up; obviously, insurance on a 300 is about the cheapest you'll find on a street bike, except Z125/Groms which aren't suitable for my rural lifestyle. I've also decided that ABS is a smart idea. So I don't see a good reason to make a change at this point unless I can get a serious performance upgrade in a small scale bike. And I need time to save up because a cash deal will make it an easier sell to my loving husband.:angel:
 
#17 ·
I rode my friend's R3. Basically similar to your N300.

Without anything attached to it aside from my 180 pound self, it felt under powered. I really needed to wring its neck just to keep up with traffic. It can do it, but you're up in the 9k-12k RPM range all the time. So I always felt vulnerable.

Not so with the N400. It easily pulled ahead of traffic. It allowed me to use a taller gear than I thought I had to because it had torque. From 65 mph, it could easily burst up to 100 mph on the highway without a downshift. It really surprised me how capable it was. So much so that I thought about buying it right on the spot but I wasn't going to get the trade in value for my Dual Sport so I passed. I believe the N400's goodness is the power to weight ratio is in the sweet spot of being fun without working hard. Being relaxed yet ready to pounce.

Having said that, there is no replacement for cubic displacement. An N400 or a high strung 250 ain't going to have the grunt of big torque engines. I do believe the N400 and N650 can deliver 85%-90% of the experience. OTOH I felt the 300 cc's are just barely adequate for US roads. At least in my neck of the woods where everyone is in a hurry and I'm doing a lot of passing on mountain roads.
 
#20 ·
I rode my friend's R3. Basically similar to your N300.

Without anything attached to it aside from my 180 pound self, it felt under powered. I really needed to wring its neck just to keep up with traffic. It can do it, but you're up in the 9k-12k RPM range all the time. So I always felt vulnerable.

Not so with the N400. It easily pulled ahead of traffic. It allowed me to use a taller gear than I thought I had to because it had torque. From 65 mph, it could easily burst up to 100 mph on the highway without a downshift. It really surprised me how capable it was. So much so that I thought about buying it right on the spot but I wasn't going to get the trade in value for my Dual Sport so I passed. I believe the N400's goodness is the power to weight ratio is in the sweet spot of being fun without working hard. Being relaxed yet ready to pounce.

Having said that, there is no replacement for cubic displacement. An N400 or a high strung 250 ain't going to have the grunt of big torque engines. I do believe the N400 and N650 can deliver 85%-90% of the experience. OTOH I felt the 300 cc's are just barely adequate for US roads. At least in my neck of the woods where everyone is in a hurry and I'm doing a lot of passing on mountain roads.

Good points. True, I have to think twice about passes on a two-lane, whereas the N1K could pass anything, anywhere--even in places where it wasn't supposed to...:devil:


My heart isn't completely set on the ZedX, especially due to the uncertainty of being able to acquire one without chartering a ship of some sort. But I would LOVE to have the opportunity to ride one!!!!! I'd love to take an N400 and N650 out for a spin, too! Heck, I'll ride about anything as long as I can get my feet down reasonably well. The only bike I've ridden that made me uncomfortable was a V-Strom 1000. It seemed OK in the parking lot, but stopping it in the real world was pretty hairy for me. Of course, I won't even try a full-sized ADV or even a KLR 650, but I've ridden HD baggers without a problem. Once I managed to g-e-n-t-l-y drop a Street Glide in my garage so I tearfully asked my neighbor to help me pick it up. That's another issue for me: I can pick up a 600-lb bike by myself if the surface is flat, dry, and smooth. Despite all the YouTube videos showing me how to do it, I don't want to push myself to pick up anything heavier.


I've heard really good things about the N400. I am having a ball throwing around my (with the bags and all the stuff in them) 400-lb bike! As cool as the N1K was, that extra 150lbs was noticeable. But it was noticeably lighter than my NT700V was. I'm really enjoying my time on a bike that fits me so much better than anything else I've had except for my 2008 N250. But it feels under-powered compared to the N300. I sold it to my sort of "adopted son"; he came to visit and rode my 300 and could really tell the difference. He loved it, so he might just take it off my hands whenever I decide I'm ready for something else.


Again, next bike would best be a cash deal, so I'll happily be on the N300 for awhile. I have some bills to pay and some stuff to do to Bug first.
 
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#18 ·
Ocl, I think you are correct. No one has magical powers, including Kawasaki. If that bike is tuned to make anywhere near 50hp, it will be at high rpm. Tuning like that will have it running like a moped at under 5000rpm.

All the Japanese factories made these small, 4 cyl bikes in the 90's. Although claims were higher, they all made around 35-40 hp at 15,000 rpm. I know it's not a fair fight. That's 30 hrs ago, and technology has advanced. So have emissions and noise.
 
#19 ·
RC, agree.

Interesting that you pointed out the 250-400cc of the 1990's.

Today's 400cc class twins make about 45 rwhp. KTM's 390 single puts out 43 rwhp. Kawasaki's 400cc twin is in the 46-47 rwhp range. KTM's output is impressive for a single but that engine always runs hot, which seems to indicate it's being pushed hard to make that output. According to testers, the manufacturers limit the output to meet European A2 licensing requirements, which is set to 47 hp so it kind of makes sense they all fall within that range. Since the ZX25R is a 4 cylinder and if it doesn't have to meet the A2 licensing requirement, I will bet that engine will be pushing out 55-60 rwhp somewhere north of 14k RPM in a package that weighs 370 lbs. wet.

The current crop of parallel twins usually rev out to 13k RPM, with max power coming at 12k RPM.

My CBR600RR made max power of 100 rwhp at 13.5k RPM, and redlined at 15k RPM. It was strong all the way to the rev limit too. Bike only weighed 410 lbs. wet. It always surprised me how fast that little bike could go once above 8k RPM. Below 8k RPM the bike was plenty strong and never bogged down even if I lugged the engine. It never vibrated badly or wanted to stall. But in from 4th-6th gear, if you rolled on the power below 6k RPM, the response was soft (as opposed to weak). Unlike the N1k, wherein any gear any RPM, roll on the throttle and it responds with anger. Shift through the gears using 6k RPM and the N1k leaves everything but the most determined vehicles behind. Do that on the N400, you have a few angry Minivans staying with you. LOL!
 
#22 ·
Yeah, really!! I've got Bug debt, too, so that's a factor. And it took years to finally get that!!:angel: Honestly, I have no doubt that if I still had the N1K and the debt along with it, I wouldn't have Bug. I had REALLY missed having a convertible for 12 long years. So another good thing to come out of my crash is that I have two "toys" instead of one. And I loaned my damaged Arai to our state program to use in schools and for lobbying efforts. Hopefully that'll help get the message through about how helmets save lives.
 
#23 ·
Our goal in early 2020 is to be debt-free (except for mortgage that's 15 years out). Most of our debt is now less than $5k, mostly from a kitchen/floor remodel, which cost as much as a damn car! At least the house appreciates in value. We will be done paying that off by mid-year.

But I really, REALLY love riding the N1k. Weight be damned. If I didn't have an N1k, I don't think I would want a Ninja 400 all by itself. I would always be thinking, if only I had an N1k! Even though I would probably be having a ton of fun on the N400! Or any pocket rocket bike. The truth is a light weight bike with a good power to weight ratio, like the N400, and I'm sure the ZX25R, is A LOT of fun to ride. The other side of that coin is, when I'm cruising along at 85+ on the N1k, I can't think of a better bike. The wind protection, the weight, the power, the ability to carry a lot of stuff with me, it all comes together. Then I can still have fun in the mountains and canyons. And of course, excess amounts of power on-demand in any gear...that's fun too!

It's funny how that works. It's fun to ride a lower powered, lightweight bike. You can ride long distance on such a bike. But it's also a whole lot of fun to ride a bike like an N1k all the time. I don't know if it's MORE fun. It's a different kind of fun.
 
#24 ·
I think similarly as far as funding. I've always been a serial monogamous bike owner. As much as I like riding it is not a necessity (food/shelter etc.) and I won't go into debt for it. That said, I haven't been without a bike longer than a few months since '69. I originally got a small bike to have transportation in college.

I've always gone for "do it all (on pavement)" bikes. Daily commuting, errands, long trips, twisties, it had to do everything reasonably well. I had a long string of VFRs until Honda veered from my path in 2002. Then I wore out a '98 and two '99s before finding the Ninja 1k in 2012.

When I see discussions on these pocket bikes I remember how much fun they were. Back in the day I crossed the country on an SL-350 Honda with an army duffle bag for luggage. No longer in my prime, that same trip would probably kill me today. But I can do it on the N1k. No need to commute any more but I can run to the grocery store, library, etc. for errands or rip off a favorite 100, 200 or 400 mile loop for lunch with a buddy or spend 10 days exploring California roads or 3 weeks to Alaska & back.
There was a time when I would have agreed that smaller bikes were more fun because I could actually ride them near their limits, thrashing the tranny keeping it in the power band, scraping pegs in the corners. Nowadays I'm content to just follow right behind, sitting back, rolling the throttle on and off and enjoying the ride.
 
#25 ·
Kenors, I occasionally ride with a bunch of whipper-snappers on 600 sport bikes. Once in a while I'll lead them (show them how it's done on a Ninja 1000, follow correct lines, etc.), other half of the time I let them lead and sniff out the cops, see if there's gravel on the road...LOL! When I lead, I don't push too hard and don't accelerate too much and leave them behind, because I'm afraid if I do they'll try to keep up and bad things happen (it has already happened once). When they lead they push and once in a while I'll see them run wide here and there. A few of them have already hit pavement more than once. So clearly, they need to learn when to say when. If they get through this super sport phase, they eventually learn how to survive and just sit back, roll on the power and just enjoy the ride. I'm trying to get them to enjoy the ride FIRST, instead of going for the adrenaline rush every time and impressing others with speed, before they graduate to liter bikes!
 
#26 ·
Lori, you should try to test ride a 636 version of the zx6. A used zx6 is worth nothing, and it's one hell of a machine.

2012, or newer has abs and traction control, too. The bike feels very light. Even though it's close to zx10 weight, it feels much lighter. That 250 is cool, but that zx6 is one of the best engines Kawasaki has ever built.
 
#27 ·
Lori, you should try to test ride a 636 version of the zx6. A used zx6 is worth nothing, and it's one hell of a machine.

2012, or newer has abs and traction control, too. The bike feels very light. Even though it's close to zx10 weight, it feels much lighter. That 250 is cool, but that zx6 is one of the best engines Kawasaki has ever built.

Maybe. Depends on fit. SW Motech has a potential luggage option, and there are some touring windscreens. All those things are factors with the ZX25R, too.


Yesterday I sat on an N400 while my tires were getting changed. Feels about like my bike. I don't see any luggage options I like, though.


GIVI has a 37 liter hard side bag that will work on the H2, along with a top case. I sure hope that tech trickles down to the smaller Kawis!
 
#31 ·
Ladies first!!!:devil:
 
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#33 ·
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