How did you break in your engine? - Page 2 - Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Forum
 10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 36 Old 02-11-2020, 08:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Johnmark101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 521
Motorcyclist magazine did a video where they bought two brand new Honda single cylinder engines. The broke one in by following the manual and the other with an aggressive break in from the beginning. After this they disassembled the engines and took critical measurements. They found no difference in the condition of the two engines.

For the first few hundred miles take it easy and just avoid any aggressive use of the brakes, engine etc. Just use common sense. This also gives you time to get a good feel for the bike before you do any real spirited riding. Once you feel good with the bike and have done the first oil change it's game on!

2013 Ninja 1000.....Osram Nightbreakers, Pazzo levers, Vesrah pads, Puig screen, R&G frame sliders / case covers / axle protector, Sargent seat, PC5 with Ivans fuel map and ECU reflash, Akrapovic full exhaust, forks and shock rebuilt by Traxxion Dynamics.

2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT.....ECU reflashed by Ivan.
Johnmark101 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 36 Old 02-11-2020, 09:48 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,668
You wont hurt anything commuting on a brand new bike. You will be able to change speeds enough to not cause.... to not cause what? I dont believe anyone has had an issue related to an improper break in. Until there is a problem, dont start inventing solutions.
Northern Ninja and jjscsix like this.
rcannon409 is online now  
post #13 of 36 Old 02-11-2020, 10:36 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Houston
Posts: 57
I think that years ago when machining, metallurgy and oil technology was nowhere near what it is today, break in was important. I remember buying a new 1975 Camaro. The first ten miles on the way home from the dealer it felt very coarse and throttle response was even a bit “off”. Before I got home it just suddenly smoothed out and was fine.

Today, I don’t believe in break in. But before I explain why, let me clarify one thing. For the life of a vehicle I try to get the coolant and oil warmed up to operating temperature before running them hard, and I don’t like to shut them down until they likewise have cooled down if I have been running hard. And I will say that I try to run somewhat easy for a hundred miles or so.

First of all, to my point above, machining has come a very long way, as has metallurgy. Second of all, how many times do you think cars and motorcycles have been test driven hard with little or no miles on them? In fact, some manufacturers do this when they are built. If it’s bad for the engines we would be hearing horror stories on the forums of failed engines.

One more thing. I have actually done the math.. Run some theoretical scenarios of how many times the pistons go up and down in just 50 miles. The number might stun you. It’s a very big number.
rcannon409 likes this.

Jim
2017 FJR1300ES, 2017 Superduke GT, 2012 1199 Panigale
jjscsix is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14 of 36 Old 02-11-2020, 12:25 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 77
I've bought lots of pre-owned vehicles that I have absolutely no idea how it was driven before I laid my hands on it. To date, not one has developed engine problems that can possibly be contributed to improper break-in (excessive oil consumption, power loss due to low compression, etc.). Does that mean I don't believe in breaking in a vehicle? Hardly. It's a calculated risk, when taken with judiciousness, reaps rewards in cost savings. But it is a risk nevertheless. When I do buy a brand new one, I do treat it differently than I do a well-used one. It's more than just the engine. It's every set of mating parts that wear against each other. Whether it is lubricated by oil, grease, or nothing (like brake disc against pads), they all have to wear into each other. Regardless of materials you choose or the machining tolerances and surface roughness you specs (I spec those at work regularly), the manufacturing processes leave the parts with residual stress that will naturally want to relieve themselves out as the parts go through heat cycles and mating parts move.

Mfrs specify different break-in procedures. Some I admit are kinda overly simplistic and strict. But I understand they have to write it that way for folks with a wide range of mechanical aptitude, include those who have absolutely none. So they speak in terms that everybody understands. If it is too overly restrictive, well... at least it's a safer bet than being too loose.

The way I look at break-in on anything mechanical boils down to LOAD and TEMPERATURE. Excessive amount of either is never good for any moving mating parts in a motorized vehicles, regardless of age.
Lubricated mating parts normally rides on a thin film of oil (or grease) and never actually touch each other... well, not too much anyway. Every bearing surface, even polished mirror-like surfaces, has a surface roughness spec called out on the mfg drawing. When absolutely green, there are always some inconsistencies in surface roughness, as well as dimensional tolerances. Thin film lubrication layer is designed to be much thicker than the surface roughness, so the mating parts never touch. Under load, and/or when the engine on cold start, that lubricating film can be at its thinnest. Load will also cause higher shear stress in the oil film, which creates heat. Too much of that heat can cause localized hot spots, which in turn thins the viscosity of the oil right at that hot spot. That can cause localized viscosity breakdown and causes the thin film to collapse and the mating parts to touch, if only for a very short duration. This is why I take it easy before the engine warms up to operating temp and all the parts have thermally expanded to a steady state at that designed operating temp. It is also why I don't load the engine unless I need to. I do all the even after the vehicle is broken in. Before that, it is that much more important.

Regardless of what some may claim, if you constantly impose max load on the engine (say by redlining the RPM at all times), you will shorten its service life. That said, I don't buy a 125HP bike just to putt-putt around the gold course. I do drive it as I see fit, and I have no problem with it when the situation calls for it. The bet is, of course, that the amount of wear I cause in the time I own the vehicle does not exceed the total amount sustainable by design, before bad sh** happens.

There are other more nuanced consideration to other aspects of vehicle break-in, but I'm getting long-winded as it is.
jjscsix likes this.

'18 Ninja 1000, '18 Street Triple R, '18 KLX250S, '15 250XCF-W, '14 K1600GT, '05 GSXR600 (track)
Volfy is online now  
post #15 of 36 Old 02-11-2020, 07:12 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,668
If you go on youtube, the history of Kawasaki video is really good. Towards the end, they show a zx6 rolling off the assembly line.

The I Stanton the bike is finished, it rolls right over to a machine, They dont show any numbers, or specifics, but you can visually see the bike gets tested, and its bot just at idle.. If a person believes the bike needs an easy break in, I suppose you have to pretend this doesnt count, or you just forget it ever hapoened? This isnt motoman sight claiming to do this, it's at the 33:00 minute area of the video.

So, at this point, your bike has completed some kind of power test and is strapped to a machine. It might take more time, but if there was value in running it at a specific speed, load, or rpm you have to think they would do this. They would be crazy not to if doing so saved money in warranty claims.

rcannon409 is online now  
post #16 of 36 Old 02-11-2020, 08:20 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 43
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportstourer View Post
Just reading through the Manual and it seems that the manufacturers instructions are to have a maximum RPM of 4000 up to 800kms (500 miles), and then 6,000 from there through to 1,600kms (1000 miles).

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but at 4,000 isn't the bike doing under 100kph (60 miles per hour)?

I've got in the back of my mind that the freeway I'd be traveling on to bring the bike home is 110kph (and I'm most likely going to be 4hrs away from home) - it seems like I'm going to have a slower trip home with cars overtaking me if I'm going to be sitting on 85-90?

Also reading the manual it seems as though information is logged as well (for the event of a crash, but I would also expect for warranty issues as well).

Just wondering what people's previous experiences were. Did you break in your bike as per manufacturers recommendations and ride below the speed limit, or is my expectations wrong?

I'm wondering if it's worth taking a few days off work instead, finding some lazy twisties that I wouldn't exceed the revs on and ride that until service, get serviced and then ride some more to ensure that I don't get excited on my usual riding stretch (which is a little more 'spirited' and breach the limit).
I would drone the bike home on a 4 hour ride with 0 miles to start. Trailer the bike home, then follow the manual. Following the manual will give you peace of mind. I followed the manual, and 4k rpm is still nice riding. Not 4 hr highway riding, but nice riding.
Darthanubis is online now  
post #17 of 36 Old 02-11-2020, 08:48 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 23
when i picked mine up i had an 1 1/2 ride home with heavy stop/start traffic plus freeway speeds.i just rode it normally and 95,000 kms later have had no issues.
gazzas is offline  
post #18 of 36 Old 02-12-2020, 10:07 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcannon409 View Post
If you go on youtube, the history of Kawasaki video is really good. Towards the end, they show a zx6 rolling off the assembly line.

The I Stanton the bike is finished, it rolls right over to a machine, They dont show any numbers, or specifics, but you can visually see the bike gets tested, and its bot just at idle.. If a person believes the bike needs an easy break in, I suppose you have to pretend this doesnt count, or you just forget it ever hapoened? This isnt motoman sight claiming to do this, it's at the 33:00 minute area of the video.

So, at this point, your bike has completed some kind of power test and is strapped to a machine. It might take more time, but if there was value in running it at a specific speed, load, or rpm you have to think they would do this. They would be crazy not to if doing so saved money in warranty claims.

https://youtu.be/_A0mSEadvas
For Kawi, there is simply no way to finish the QA/QC check without a power test. If they could do without the step, they would. As is, it is a better to check and be able to uncover any quality issue up front, at the expense of pulling a very brief high power test. Notice too they stressed the bikes were fully warmed up before engaging the power test. The fact that they run it on the dyno for short duration (probably less than 30sec) doesn't automatically translate to a tacit encouragement for new owners to bang off the rev limiter for however long they want. Otherwise, they wouldn't bother to specify break-in instructions in the manual.

That would be like saying: if the doctor sticks a needle in my vein to draw blood for my annual physical, then it must be okay for me to stick a needle in my vein whenever I feel like it... even if the doc specifically told me not to.

'18 Ninja 1000, '18 Street Triple R, '18 KLX250S, '15 250XCF-W, '14 K1600GT, '05 GSXR600 (track)
Volfy is online now  
post #19 of 36 Old 02-12-2020, 10:20 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Houston
Posts: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volfy View Post
For Kawi, there is simply no way to finish the QA/QC check without a power test. If they could do without the step, they would. As is, it is a better to check and be able to uncover any quality issue up front, at the expense of pulling a very brief high power test. Notice too they stressed the bikes were fully warmed up before engaging the power test. The fact that they run it on the dyno for short duration (probably less than 30sec) doesn't automatically translate to a tacit encouragement for new owners to bang off the rev limiter for however long they want. Otherwise, they wouldn't bother to specify break-in instructions in the manual.

That would be like saying: if the doctor sticks a needle in my vein to draw blood for my annual physical, then it must be okay for me to stick a needle in my vein whenever I feel like it... even if the doc specifically told me not to.
A better anaology is when a doctor tells a patient to quit smoking, then you see the doctor walk out of the office at the end of the day and light up a cigarette himself
Volfy likes this.

Jim
2017 FJR1300ES, 2017 Superduke GT, 2012 1199 Panigale
jjscsix is online now  
post #20 of 36 Old 02-12-2020, 11:01 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 77
At the end of the day, its your bike and you should do what you believe in and are comfortable with. As Captain Barbossa would say: the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

I understand what Kawi is trying to say in the Manual, without turning it into a doctoral dissertation in tribology. So I follow my own guidelines. Savvy?

'18 Ninja 1000, '18 Street Triple R, '18 KLX250S, '15 250XCF-W, '14 K1600GT, '05 GSXR600 (track)
Volfy is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome