Z H2 Makes MORE RWHP Than H2 SX - Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 03-23-2020, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
OCL
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Z H2 Makes MORE RWHP Than H2 SX

Ok I know the title is slightly misleading. It makes the same RWHP at peak. But the ZH2 holds on to it much longer. The Dyno runs are closer to the middle of the video. Brocks compares the Dyno curve to that of the H2 SX and the results were surprising.


<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2hIWmgUHtc0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Last edited by OCL; 03-23-2020 at 02:39 PM.
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post #2 of 29 Old 03-23-2020, 03:52 PM
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Cool video.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense. Guys that would buy a hyper streetfighter are likely the type that care much more about top end HP. Consider the competition in this category: Super Duke 1290, TuonoV4 1100, Ducati Streetfighter V4, etc.

The SX SE is a hypersport tourer. I never did need all the HP that the ZX14R has when I rode mine. Frankly, it could have similar "detuned" top end like the chart for H2 SX SE in this video, and I wouldn't miss it much. I've always believe that Kawi should've done a ZX14 SX, a dedicated sport touring version. Detuned the HP, relax the rider ergos, better wind protection, etc. But I understand Kawi probably committed to the H2 platform many years ago already, so no incentive to spend R&D money on expanding a line, whose days are numbered. Supercharging a 998cc engine makes more sense with ever tightening emissions standards like Euro 4/5. And it is more "tunable" than normally aspirated big block.

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post #3 of 29 Old 03-23-2020, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Volfy View Post
...... I've always believe that Kawi should've done a ZX14 SX, a dedicated sport touring version. Detuned the HP, relax the rider ergos, better wind protection, etc. But I understand Kawi probably committed to the H2 platform many years ago already, so no incentive to spend R&D money on expanding a line, whose days are numbered.....
Let me introduce you to 2008 when Kawasaki introduced the Concours 14!

Yes, I know you are already aware of that. But what you are suggesting is what they did...exactly! I had one for three years (a 2010) and I was dissapointed with it too.
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post #4 of 29 Old 03-23-2020, 10:21 PM
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All interesting, but Kawi has been playing with surcharged bikes for a few more years. They had to get better stock numbers than they did on the 2018 SX. Kawasaki pulled a lot out of the top of the H2 SX, my guess to get it to pass emissions. I think we'll find these two make similar power after being flashed. This is not the best run on my flash. I cannot seem to find the better run right now, but it pulled just short of 240 RWHP and barely over 105 RW LbFt of torque.

The graph below is stock and flashed. My stock torque curve is similar to his H2 SX.

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post #5 of 29 Old 03-23-2020, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jjscsix View Post
Let me introduce you to 2008 when Kawasaki introduced the Concours 14!

Yes, I know you are already aware of that. But what you are suggesting is what they did...exactly! I had one for three years (a 2010) and I was dissapointed with it too.
Lol... I loved the engine. It's the package around it that I didn't like so much. Still, I firmly believe if Kawi had spend some R&D yen on it, they could've revamped it into a world class competitor. What I suspect though, is Kawi knew the mitsibishi derived big block isnt as flexible as the supercharged H2 line, so they chose to let it die a painfully slow death, just like the ZX14R. Sad.

To your point though, I tend to look at sport tourers in 4 classes:

Grand tourers: 700 lbs +

Hypersport tourers: 600 lbs

Liter class sport tourers: 500 lbs

Light sport tourers: 400 lbs.

Obviously, a lot of bikes don't fall neatly into those buckets, but the general trend is there. What I was referring to the ZX14 SX would still be in the 600 lbs class, instead of going all the way up into the 700+ grand tourers. Same class as the H2 SX, VFR1200F and K1300S, all of which I'm actually quite fond of. Busa and ZX14R are also in here, and both in their last yr of production. If it weren't for H2 SX, this class would be dead. I'm glad Kawi thinks there are enough of us that like the tweeners.

'18 Ninja 1000, '18 Street Triple R, '18 KLX250S, '15 250XCF-W, '14 K1600GT, '05 GSXR600 (track)
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post #6 of 29 Old 03-24-2020, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Volfy View Post
Lol... I loved the engine. It's the package around it that I didn't like so much. Still, I firmly believe if Kawi had spend some R&D yen on it, they could've revamped it into a world class competitor. What I suspect though, is Kawi knew the mitsibishi derived big block isnt as flexible as the supercharged H2 line, so they chose to let it die a painfully slow death, just like the ZX14R. Sad.

To your point though, I tend to look at sport tourers in 4 classes:

Grand tourers: 700 lbs +

Hypersport tourers: 600 lbs

Liter class sport tourers: 500 lbs

Light sport tourers: 400 lbs.

Obviously, a lot of bikes don't fall neatly into those buckets, but the general trend is there. What I was referring to the ZX14 SX would still be in the 600 lbs class, instead of going all the way up into the 700+ grand tourers. Same class as the H2 SX, VFR1200F and K1300S, all of which I'm actually quite fond of. Busa and ZX14R are also in here, and both in their last yr of production. If it weren't for H2 SX, this class would be dead. I'm glad Kawi thinks there are enough of us that like the tweeners.
Are you okay with chain drive bikes as Touring bikes? If so, it opens a lot of options. There are several "adventure" bikes that att really nothing but tall touring bikes. Like the Versys SE, BMW S1000XR, Multistrada, BMW GS, and others. If they would just lower them a smidge and get rid of the beaks....

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post #7 of 29 Old 03-24-2020, 08:09 AM
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57x, that h2sx motor is like those outboard motors from the 80's, isnt it? Same basic engine, and displacement. Small set up changes determine its horsepower output.

I dont think the mod list to get to 240hp is any different than I did to my Ninja 1000, is it? (Ecu flash and a pipe )I dont mean that in a shitty way, its obvious it didnt need extensive mods to give incredible numbers.

Suzuki will have a new Hayabusa in 2021. If Kawasaki is selling enough zx14's and concours 14's, they will clean up their emissions and bring both back. The h2sx series is too expensive to be a direct replacement.
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post #8 of 29 Old 03-24-2020, 08:29 AM
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If only that bike wasn't so ugly, lol. Obviously it has a lot of tuning potential and I have no doubt you could probably add 50-100 HP on that thing but as it is my Super Duke R makes about 15 less HP and the same torque numbers with an NA engine.

I will keep my N1K!
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post #9 of 29 Old 03-24-2020, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jjscsix View Post
Are you okay with chain drive bikes as Touring bikes? If so, it opens a lot of options. There are several "adventure" bikes that att really nothing but tall touring bikes. Like the Versys SE, BMW S1000XR, Multistrada, BMW GS, and others. If they would just lower them a smidge and get rid of the beaks....
On touring bikes, I do prefer shafties. It's one less thing to worry about out on the road. But... if the rest of the bike is appealing enough for what I'm looking for, I'm okay with chain. I have had several - Triumph ST and GT, ZX14R and now N1k. I should also include an SV1000S and a 2nd-gen FZ1. Even though I didn't ever sport tour on those 2, they were set up for it, if I wanted to.

The main trade off is, of course, weight. A chain drive VFR1200F would probably weight less than the H2 SX. Imagine that. IMO, the 600 lbs class can afford to be shaft driven. 500 or lighter, no.

I'm luke warm on the adv tourers. You are absolutely right many of them are just tall and up-right sport tourers. If I were over 6ft tall, I might like them more. Also, being an old sportbike guy, I just think a traditional sport tourers feels "right". Going into a nice sweeper, shifting 1/2 a cheek, and sliding my chin over the inside handlebar "feels" right on a gentlman's sportbike like the VFR1200F. I've done that on more upright bikes, and it just feels odd, even thought the bike is more than capable of doing the deed. Honestly, even the handlebar position/angle and the N1k feels more like what you'd find on a naked streetfighter with tubular handlebar straight across. This is why I'm working on installing Apex 3" riser clip-ons. Not so much to raise or lower the bar height and reach, but to adjust the downswept and rearward angles to be more like what you'd find on a sportbike. The VFR1200F's rider ergos feels perfect to me. Most riders find it too aggressive.

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post #10 of 29 Old 03-24-2020, 08:51 AM
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Crf fan, I think these bikes are the future, more so than "right now".

From what they say, it's easier to get a 1000cc supercharged bike through emissions testing vs something similar, like a zx14, or your Superduke.

If that's not true, the supercharger doesnt make much sense. If you dont flash it, it's not much more than your Superduke carrying an extra 45lbs.

I think proof of this idea can be found by looking at the exhaust on the 2020, redesigned Superduke. If they had to make it run more clean than it does now, where do you add more exhaust or more cats?
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