Rear brake pedal spring - Page 2 - Kawasaki Ninja 1000 Forum
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post #11 of 22 Old 12-04-2019, 11:34 PM
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All N1K model years run a BIG 250mm rear disc that's over 6mm thick. It's very heavy: the high brake disc mass gives more heat capacity and fade resistance. I think it's sized that way for good reason: on a bike made to accommodate two-up sport touring at speed (in EU this bike is very popular!) a generously sized rear disc is an asset when you're hauling down those mountain passes with the missus on back. And what if she doesn't resemble the gal in that Peloton commercial?

This same rear brake is probably over-spec'ed for lightly-loaded one-up duty, so they take the edge off it with the added return spring force and hydraulic ratios. Panic or errant lock-ups are less likely when this deliberate actuation is required. For a big-booted clydesdale like myself, it works AOK.

Keep in mind the Ninja 1000 has LOTS of forward weight transfer when stopping, which reduces rear tire grip available for braking. The rather short wheelbase, high center-of-gravity, street suspension, and weight make this so. Ultimately, braking force available is tire grip limited.
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post #12 of 22 Old 12-05-2019, 02:31 AM
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If you think the N1K rear spring is bad, the H2 SX is much worse. It's like stepping on a brick. On both I found a much lighter spring so I could get feeling and feedback. I was much happier on both.
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post #13 of 22 Old 12-05-2019, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickifumi View Post
Ultimately, braking force available is tire grip limited.
True for every vehicle.

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post #14 of 22 Old 12-05-2019, 09:51 AM
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The stock rear rotor is the same rotor that's used on the zx14.

It makes sense with what Rikifumi said. They did do all they could to reduce power because that disc was more appropriate for a 600lb machine. The heavy spring, and weak friction rating fit this idea.

Sounds like they tried to do the same on the h2sx?
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post #15 of 22 Old 12-05-2019, 07:57 PM
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I upgraded my front brake, first. On the pre 2014 bikes, the front brake system was not very good. Although a good set of pads fixed it, I wanted to go further, and did.

Along the way, I found this old chart. There was very little info available. This chart is old enough to where the guy used his rd350 as an example, so it's old. I didnt much think about the chart as it had to be hopelessly outdated, and useless. Too old. Technology changes, right? Turns out, not so much. The chart is very accurate, and what he said was right on.

So, to the rear brake. I decide the chart is too old, outdated. Technology changes. Once again, I was the fool. Turns out, the chart is still correct.

https://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm

Our front master cylinder, to piston ratio fell right inline with what it should have. The rear , not so much. Our stock system uses a 14mm master cylinder and a 38mm single piston. According to the chart, that works out to a ratio of 7.37.

The old, antique, outdated chart says "Single piston calipers are much happier in the 14:1 to 12:1 range" again, it had to be bullshit....rd350? Serious? That's older than Kenors and I, put together.

I started checking the euro brands. Sure enough, the Ducati's, aprilia, and even the high end BMW s1000rr carbon frame bike . Sure enough, theirs were all in that 12 to 13 ratio. When I set my bike up at that 12.7 ratio, my rear brake started to have feel. That feel lasted all the way to the point of locking it up. You really have to work at it to lock it up. The feeling is there, and you know you are screwing up when you do.
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post #16 of 22 Old 12-05-2019, 09:53 PM
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Thinking back I did lubricate the pivot for the rear brake pedal. The movement had become a bit stiff.

Other than that it worked fine. The only time I ever locked up the rear wheel accidentally was on my '11 in association with downshifting. That bike had a tremendous amount of engine braking that took some getting use to. I think it works fine as a rear brake with just about the right amount of power.

The only time I worry about a touchy feely rear brake is after a spirited ride. Touch the rotor and it will burn your fingers!
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post #17 of 22 Old 12-12-2019, 09:49 AM
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Kenors, that's for sure. Our stock 2011 bikes felt like that rear brake was built into the throttle, didnt it? Close throttle, fly over handlebars.

It surprised me at how quickly we all adapted to it. Ivan's flash cured it, but up until that point, we were stuck with that heavy engine braking. I know some even liked it.
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post #18 of 22 Old 12-12-2019, 11:19 AM
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RC - I think I remember that you installed a Brembo P32 caliber. What master cylinder (guessing it was a 1/2" based on the chart) did you install for the 12.7 ratio?

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post #19 of 22 Old 12-12-2019, 10:52 PM
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I could not find a reasonable aftermarket master cylinder. All were expensive. I searched back, and the 2008-2010 zx10 uses a 1/2" rear master cylinder. I found a nice one, on ebay, for under 10.00 shipped. After 2010, they switched to a 14mm, just like we have.

The only strange part about this switch is having to order the "Active" brand caliper carrier, from Japan. I also bought a p34, but the 32 has more feel. Not as much power....32 is just right.

It's funny because this new brake is not awesome, or anything like that. After a day of riding, you dont think about it anymore. It's now something that works properly.

https://japan.webike.net/products/21962838.html

Last edited by rcannon409; 12-12-2019 at 10:59 PM.
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post #20 of 22 Old 12-14-2019, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcannon409 View Post
I could not find a reasonable aftermarket master cylinder. All were expensive. I searched back, and the 2008-2010 zx10 uses a 1/2" rear master cylinder. I found a nice one, on ebay, for under 10.00 shipped. After 2010, they switched to a 14mm, just like we have.

The only strange part about this switch is having to order the "Active" brand caliper carrier, from Japan. I also bought a p34, but the 32 has more feel. Not as much power....32 is just right.

It's funny because this new brake is not awesome, or anything like that. After a day of riding, you dont think about it anymore. It's now something that works properly.

https://japan.webike.net/products/21962838.html

Got some pics ? In particular, I'm curious as to the ABS sensor mount. The pictures on Webike aren't very good.
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